Is General the same as Deep.

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Is General the same as Deep.

Post  colame on Thu May 30, 2013 2:02 pm

Is General the same as Deep or any of the other custom settings on my 4500 or is it just a label. If all the settings in each were set the same would they preform the same.
Was just trying to work it out.
thanks
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Thu May 30, 2013 2:17 pm

The settings in Deep are factory preset differently to the ones factory preset in General, but there's nothing stopping you adjusting them to what you like. If you adjusted them so they were both identical, then it wouldn't matter which position you had the switch in, the detector would behave the same in either.

...and PS, Q31 to the forum.
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Is General the same as Deep.

Post  colame on Thu May 30, 2013 4:42 pm

you are helping me win a argument CostasDee.
thanks
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Thu May 30, 2013 6:27 pm

1/2 for me then, what do I get?
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  colame on Thu May 30, 2013 7:09 pm

A slab of crownies was the booty. Thinking 1/2 are yours but they are going fast.
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Thu May 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Damn and you're probably not too far also. Oh well, think of me every few swigs....cheers Q11
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Nightjar on Thu May 30, 2013 11:48 pm

Hmmm! scratch
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Fri May 31, 2013 12:00 am

Have I said wrong Nightjar? Do I have to give the 1/2 a slab back?
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Nightjar on Fri May 31, 2013 12:18 am

I think you better give the whole slab back and another half. Very Happy
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Digginerup on Fri May 31, 2013 10:44 am

So what is the correct answer??

Wayne. cheers
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Fri May 31, 2013 12:04 pm

I've asked a so called "expert" and sorry Nightjar, he agrees with me on the "search mode" switch. The "timings" switch is different where it does change the timings internally, but the "search mode" switch is what he calls a "lazy man's switch" and only loads factory preset settings that can be altered in the front-panel to all be identical or different or whatever you like.

So I'm temporarily keeping the slab whilst the jury's out.
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Fri May 31, 2013 12:17 pm

G'day CostaDee I think you mean the timing settings need to be adjusted in the back panel. Very Happy Q30 I will take it all back if I am wrong though. Rolling Eyes

Cheers.

Mike. cheers

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  TheGoldenChild on Fri May 31, 2013 12:43 pm

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Fri May 31, 2013 12:50 pm

Is General the same as Deep or any of the other custom settings on my 4500 or is it just a label. If all the settings in each were set the same would they preform the same.
Was just trying to work it out.
thanks

Maybe I'm confusing it a bit here, so to what I take from the question above is that on the front panel of the 4500, it has a "Search Mode" switch and what I am understanding, the question is, whether you're in "deep" or in "general", if all the settings on the back-panel are adjusted from their factory default settings so that they are identical to whichever position the switch is in, deep or general, then would the detector perform the same to which I answered yes as this switch doesn't change the soil/timings of the detector, that is adjusted with the "soil/timings' switch and can be in Enhanced, Normal or if in the "special" position, through the back-panel.

Now I am very green to all this new technology so there is a chance I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it.
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Fri May 31, 2013 12:55 pm

As soon as I get my hands on it there GoldenChild, you'll get your half share of my half share of the slab they wagered on, but I don't reckon neither of us should hold our breath for too long.. geek
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Fri May 31, 2013 5:19 pm

I have found that there is always much confusion over what the mode switch dose particularly with beginners but even some experienced guys too.
The mode switch allows you to select from different minelab factory preset settings or to modify them and have your own saved in their place.
Like Costas said If you selected the same settings under all of them they will perform the same.

I always setup a mode for each different timing that I will be using in the area I am working in.
I have numbered mine 1=deep 2=normal 3=custom and I have selected timing specific settings in each of them.
So when I switch from one timing to the other I just switch my mode switch to select the appropriate pre-saved
settings that I use for that timing.

This is of benefit as I can quickly change timings and settings to:
-Check a potential target.
-because of varying ground.

For example:

1- I might be detecting along in Enhance and the ground might change and become noisy (Ground Noise NOT EMI) so I just flick the 2 switches (the timings and mode switches) over to Sens Smooth and the corresponding pre-saved settings reground balance and away I go.

2-Im detecting along in Enhance timing and I get a slight noise that could be a deep target, so I switch to Sens Extra timing and the corresponding pre-saved settings to check the target.

This is the TRUE power of the MODE switch in the right hands.

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Fri May 31, 2013 7:01 pm

I hadn't thought of combining the functionality of the 2 switches, like aurumpro suggested. Great idea aurumpro and ill be looking into that a little more, a little later, when I get a little more experience under my belt.

In the meantime what I really want to know, is where's my slab? Q11 lol!

PS I am glad I'm not wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was only mistaken...
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 pm

Do it costas
It helps greatly in saving time and you can check a potential target at the flick of a switch.
This = more gold cyclops

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Nightjar on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:47 am

OK Costa I concede you get your slab, we were on two different pages.
My point, the scratch was because, why would you sit around a campfire arguing about having all settings the same?
About as useful as arguing that a car will go faster in 5th gear as apposed to 4th?

Aurumpro explains it very well;

For example:

1- I might be detecting along in Enhance and the ground might change and become noisy (Ground Noise NOT EMI) so I just flick the 2 switches (the timings and mode switches) over to Sens Smooth and the corresponding pre-saved settings reground balance and away I go.

2-Im detecting along in Enhance timing and I get a slight noise that could be a deep target, so I switch to Sens Extra timing and the corresponding pre-saved settings to check the target.

This is the TRUE power of the MODE switch in the right hands.



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Is General the same as Deep.

Post  colame on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:24 pm

Thanks everyone for enlightening and entertaining advice. Will soon head out and work on the settings a little and try to find something little bigger than .1 of a gram. Guess its a good start.
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  CostasDee on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:09 pm

Haig and cola Q40

PS Good luck out there.

PSS Wasn't me sitting around the campfire arguing the point there Nightjar, it's the bloke that's gonna share his slab with me. Q11
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Is General the same as Deep.

Post  colame on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:22 pm

Costa your going to have to share the last few. And my fridge broke you don't mind them warm do ya. affraid
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  snapper on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:47 pm

G,day, Costa and aurumpro i know that with the 5k, put all the settings in deep and general the same which i do as im used to the sound from general, deep will out perform general on every target i hit, by that i mean it will be a stronger signal than general, i often switch from one to the other when on a patch to experiment, with the same timings, Fine Gold, audio the lot and deep will give out a better signal, i have proved this to myself time and time again, but there is one downside and that is deep can be noisy when the EMI i bad, so then i will use general cheers Stu

ps; just a few days back i got a very faint signal in deep and switched to general and nothing, not a sound, switched back to deep and there it was, very faint but i would have walked right over it if i was using general, it was a .8 gram at around 8"
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:13 pm

snapper wrote:G,day, Costa and aurumpro i know that with the 5k, put all the settings in deep and general the same which i do as im used to the sound from general, deep will out perform general on every target i hit, by that i mean it will be a stronger signal than general, i often switch from one to the other when on a patch to experiment, with the same timings, Fine Gold, audio the lot and deep will give out a better signal, i have proved this to myself time and time again, but there is one downside and that is deep can be noisy when the EMI i bad, so then i will use general cheers Stu

ps; just a few days back i got a very faint signal in deep and switched to general and nothing, not a sound, switched back to deep and there it was, very faint but i would have walked right over it if i was using general, it was a .8 gram at around 8"

I can assure you that if you have all of the settings the same in General and deep that they are going to perform exactly the same.
The mode switch dose not perform any magic it just allows you to select from minelab factory preset settings or to save your own in their place.

I bet if you carefully check what settings you have selected in the two modes that 1 or more of them are different it can be one seemingly minor difference that gives you the better response.
It can be as minor as a different tone setting that can brighten the signal response or 1 number in the stabilizer Ect...Ect...
So give them a check and let us know if there was one different or not.
I've found that over the years that the minor details make all the difference.

Hope this helps snapper

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:28 pm

Sorry snapper forgot to say I had the same thing happen to my mate and he had all of the settings the same EXCEPT he didn't realize that the minlab factory preset settings changed the Tone setting in the main menu as well as all of the mode specific settings, the tone setting is the only setting that gets changed in the main menu when changing modes.
This is how he was caught out in the same scenario as you.

He never realized how much difference the lower tone can make in brightening the signal response in some circumstances, now he run's the tone setting allot more carefully.

I like my tone even lower (30-36) as the lower tone really brightens the signal against the background chatter which is always a high frequency.

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  snapper on Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:58 pm

G,day aurumpro, well i have to make and bake a big humble pie tonight, i have a test patch here and had a look at all the settings,
one by one i checked and they were all the same, oops hang on, signal in deep was set at 18, signal in general was set at 16, ouch,
set the signal in general to 18 and guess what, no difference in signal, so heres a question, would this account for a noisier detector in high EMI days? or was it just my imagination playing tricks, cheers for your reply.Stu
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:27 pm

No worries snapper just glad I could help you figure it out.

That would defiantly make a difference as you found out, I prefer to run my signal peak setting high (19-20 GPX 5000) as the higher you sett it the bigger the difference in the high and low in the frequency change in the target response, this makes it more easily Identifiable.
Careful selection of the correct audio tone and signal peak to suit your hearing helps allot in brightening the signal response.

I do NOT use these settings to deal with EMI I use in this order these settings to deal with EMI:
-1 Auto or Manual Tune
-2 Audio type= boost, deep, normal, quiet.
-3 Stabilizer
-4 Target volume (I only lower this if its REAL bad)

I do NOT to use the Rx-Gain to deal with EMI I use the gain solely for the purpose of eliminating the ground signal, as its real purpose is fine tuning the receive waiting time of the timing I have selected to suit the ground conditions.
I'm not saying the gain dose not eliminate EMI if its turned down, it dose but its at a cost where as using the above tuning and audio settings is way better if you are after that edge.
So I prefer my gain as high as the ground will allow and deal with EMI in other ways.

Of all of the most common mistakes made by the inexperienced or experienced alike is confusing the EMI and Ground signal with each other or vice-verse.
As they both have different ways of dealing with them to get the most out of the detector.










Last edited by aurumpro on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : more detail)

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Nightjar on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:30 pm

Many thanks Aurumpro for your very valuable help, we can learn something everyday.


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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Narrawa on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:15 pm

I like my tone even lower (30-36) as the lower tone really brightens the signal against the background chatter which is always a high frequency
The background chatter is whatever you set the audio tone to.

...... as its real purpose is fine tuning the receive waiting time of the timing I have selected to suit the ground conditions.
You cannot alter the timing..other than selecting another timing. The wait and RX are not the same thing....one is factory set...the other is user controllable. You can tell the detector not to hear as much signal by lowering the RX gain....but nothing you do will alter the timings wait time.

I do NOT use these settings to deal with EMI I use in this order these settings to deal with EMI:
-1 Auto or Manual Tune
-2 Audio type= boost, deep, normal, quiet.
-3 Stabilizer
-4 Target volume (I only lower this if its REAL bad)
Im lost.? scratch
No disrespect intended...just some clarification.
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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

Post  Mechanic on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:33 pm

Hi Aurumpro, Narrawa,

I would have to agree with Narrawa on this(Though I am no expert on the gpx machines). The gain would not effect the receive waiting time, unless you know something special! The manual/auto tune will change the receive wait time just a little bit as it is adjusted through its full range, but other than that the only other way is to change timings. As I understand it the gain will adjust either the final amplification stage before the signals are read into the micro-controller or will adjust the multiplication factor that all the signals are multiplied by(digital gain) whilst the signals are being combined, before being sent to the audio section or audio processing within the micro-controller.

Cheers Mick

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Re: Is General the same as Deep.

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