GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

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-gpz-19-coil-and-other-matters

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Hi JP, nice gold mate, look forward to watching the vid and thanks for posting. Now before some members try and categorize my congratulations as a stance on this coil , it's simple I don't own one or a 7000 even, but try my best to congratulate all members that finds gold and post on the forum no matter of size, machine used or coil configuration.  Congrats JP hope you find a heap more Smile

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  goldtalkleonora on Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:56 am

hi Kon, It would probably be smarter if I didn't respond, but personally I find this particular point one of the most interesting parts of metal detecting.
I also apologise in advance as I am not the best of writers and often don't get my exact point across. When I said that JP "knew" that gold was going to be there....I should of said "believed" gold was going to be there. Again, I don't want to put words in his mouth but my experiences proves this point again and again. I think it's fair to say that most people metal detecting are working flogged ground and from what I read on the forums (which ain't a lot!) people are expecting/hoping that new detectors and/or new coils will be what makes them successful. Then they bag them when it doesn't. I was not trying to blow my own trumpet....I don't do that. I was only trying to make the point that most of the time there is nothing deeper to find and even if there is then it has already been recovered by earlier detectors. I am not in a position to comment on the 19" because. as I have said, I don't have one.
But I do know that in general, whether its a 15% 0r 30% increase in depth it may be such a minor or subtle advantage that the vast majority of operators will not benefit from it. A small increase in ability to a GOOD operator is money to the other 95% it's a waste of money. Yes, that's one of the reasons we run training courses....because improving the way you detect is the easiest way to increase your gold take. Again, I'm not throwing dirt on anyone....just passing an opinion.
cheers

Tony
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Not ani Minelab

Post  Reg Wilson on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:22 am

I would like to clear up a couple of misconceptions.
It has been inferred by some on this and the other forum that I am anti Minelab, and in particular, anti GPZ7000. This is simply not so. Upon the release of the Z I was one of the 'first cabs off the rank', and reported my delight with a machine that paid for its self within a fortnight. At first I was dismissive of those that could not get their new detectors to behave, believing they just failed to 'get the hang of it'. When ML came up with the 'ring' to supposedly solve these problems it became obvious that things were not as they should be with some machines. My Z continued to find gold, the best piece being over 27 ozs. I took ML's claim of UP TO 40% depth increase 'with a grain of salt', as it was target definition that was probably more important than any depth increase to me.
With the introduction of the Z 19" coil I once again took the claim of an AVERAGE of 30% depth increase as ML's advertising department treating the truth carelessly. (remember that was AVERAGE, not UP TO) If a car company advertised 30% increase in horsepower, it would be easy to put it on the 'dyno' to either verify or debunk such a claim, but to verify or otherwise ML's claim is a little more difficult.
The photos seemed to depict a highly filleted, and therefore light weight coil. That was the first disappointment.
For some bizarre and unexplained reason little rubber strips were added to the skid plate, working as a brake over grass.
I have never stated that this coil would not find gold, as I have found gold with it myself, however as I could not prove a depth increase of more than 10 to 15% MAXIMUM, not AVERAGE, in some situations, I then concluded that this was an overpriced, over weight, poorly designed, highly exaggerated product that should never have been put on the market in that configuration. I consider it to be the Ford Edsel of the detector world.
Jonathan Porter and others have found gold with this coil, and that is to be expected, as in some circumstances it will achieve a modest increase in depth, and to their credit they have not claimed anything as ridiculous as a 30% increase.
Minelab need to get their house in order if they expect to stay 'top dog' in the detector world and retain their credibility. Recent events have put their dealers in an invidious situation, where they must 'tow the line', and maintain the company propaganda, or take on board the legitimate criticisms of their customers. Coiltek in Maryborough are my local ML agents, and have always done their best for me and all their other customers, but it is unfair of ML to put them in a 'meat in the sandwich' situation. Minelab is a good company, but there are one or two in that organization who need to get back on track.
They know who they are. So do I.
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  norvic on Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:23 pm

Reg, very keen to know how you measured the 19" coils depth advantage over the 14", at 10% to 15% Max, and the settings used to get this. I suspect from my success with the 19" the % gain is higher, but as stated I don`t know how it would be possible to get a accurate measurement. Would love to learn your method, as am currently wet weather bound and can`t get out, ie. got the time to buggerise around.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  rc62burke on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:49 pm

norvic wrote:Reg, very keen to know how you measured the 19" coils depth advantage over the 14", at 10% to 15% Max, and the settings used to get this. I suspect from my success with the 19" the % gain is higher, but as stated I don`t know how it would be possible to get a accurate measurement. Would love to learn your method, as am currently wet weather bound and can`t get out, ie. got the time to buggerise around.

Norvic,

What's your agenda dude??? this is a bloody loaded question aimed at gaining info to possibly bag Reg, if I'm wrong I will stand corrected But I'm sure that won't happen, I have seen your comments on other forums & you have clearly bagged anyone who has made a seemingly negative comment about the GPZ & 19"coil & clearly thrown your support behind JP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your stance BTW that's your choice.
But like I said it's a loaded question !!!!!!!!

How about you put up your methodology first then Reg or others can respond ??? what do you say???
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Harb on Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:38 pm

I think we should ban all further talk on the depth percentage of the 19.......

Its really impossible to prove one way or the other, and is totally irrelevant anyway.....its either helping you to find gold or its not........I don't know anywhere I could say with honestly there is definitely gold 30% deeper than previous stuff I have dug up to prove the point one way or another.

Lets just call it an extra tool, maybe you like it , maybe you don't, thats up to the user.

If you argue there should be gold being found in area's already detected, don't waste time on here.......go and surface the place......you should be making money, not banging the computer keys here !!

Lets just enjoy the fact we have these tools at all......we live in amazing times.

Way to many Good people at each others throat here.....just not worth it
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  norvic on Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:50 pm

I concur Harp, no way I know to prove the % gain the 19" has. Certainly exciting times with the tech ML have brought us.
Lee, Simply asking Reg how he got to the % gain, because I`m not aware of any way to do it except maybe in a lab but that`s not in the field.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Ridge Runner on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:13 pm

The Depth on any machine and coil is a flexible figure at best regardless of the brand has to be left as an open book, I have had some terrible results and yet I have had some remarkable results too,

My results differ from what other users find because when using the same machine as others I changed the coil I saw a 16 - 17% increase in depth if I use it the same way as they do, But when I use it my way I can get up 83 to 116% more depth depending on the EMI, As crazy as these figures sound I have achieved them on some occasions when in clear ground, and a 50% increase is a lot easier to hear than 80%, So I would put the claims of ML down to the user and it is very easy to extract extra depth from a threshold based machines So this 30% is more about the user, Give me a Z and I bet that I could loose depth and would most likely do better with an Aldi/Lidl Special,,

I think we need to Give some of the Credit to that 30% to the Users, and the extra depth is built in to the Z but in order to find it is down to the Opperator Not ML, The factory settings on the Etrac and the CTX are totally Crap, But if you learn them and put the pedal to the metal then they come alive, The Z is no different, I have been reading JP's travels for years and I have no doubt that if he says the Z can do it then it's not up for debate,

Can the 19" / Z deliver and extra 30% ? Yes but not straight out of the box for the new user, And it is going to take people 4 to 6 months of weekends away just to try and get their head round it, for those who are out there all the time it will take them about 2 or 3 months to start making progress,

The biggest mistake people make is because they are use to running a PI, GP/GPX, Well it is not a PI So don't expect to see the same results straight out the box,, It is only the last couple of years that Aussies have gone back to using VLFs and most still to this day bag VLF's and OZ has always been a bit backward when it comes to VLF's and with the birth of XP and Nokta Racer etc are more and more folks going down that road,,, So just to clear things up PI machines are not the End of the World, and when you think of the Z you need to think " Supercharged VLF with Nitrous Oxide" and all those who are not seeing their 30% need to forget how they use their PI machines and retrain their mind to think about something that is closer to VLF than a PI.

PI machines at best are nothing but a crude powerful detectors,, with limited adjustments that are more about dealing with ground condition than targets, From what I have seen the Z finds Gold that at one time could only be seen by VLF's excluding the SDC, but the Z is doing it all large small Spikey, Solid, Porous you name it It does it and it is doing it in ground that has been hammered so even if it only see's them an Inch deep if the ground has been hammered then that's a 100% increase,

People need to forget the number quoted by ML and start counting the numbers of Nuggets instead, Because what is more important is Finding the Gold not how deep they are.

John.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Ridge Runner on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:47 pm

Reg Wilson wrote:Ridge runner ,what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever found any gold?

Yeah I have,, Have a Nice Day.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Hoffs Gold on Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:46 am

Great write up and not a too bad an effort on the nuggets mate. Wink
I’m very keen to see your 14”-19” comparison video. bounce
And even though we’ve never met in person, you’ve always been very quick to address any issues I’ve had with the Zed or its coil combinations. Not that my Zed has ever really had an issue "nock on wood" the operator on the other hand. Q34
Cheers
Clinton
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-gpz-19-coil-and-other-matters

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:18 pm

Ridge Runner wrote:
Reg Wilson wrote:Ridge runner ,what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever found any gold?

Yeah I have,, Have a Nice Day.

Hey Reg, even though many including myself have commended your finds mainly from a previous era, does not give you the right to belittle others. This is a gold forum, and yes bro believe it or not some on this forum do find good gold other than yourself. Just saying bro, respect for others, 60 ounces for the year is nothing to puff your chest out about buddy.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  fredmason on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:28 am

"Hi Fred and Flak.

Just what we needed some back-up from the good ol’ USA, those photos and text is certainly undisputable proof of the ability of the GPZ 19”in Coil.

Where is the nearest dealer? I’m on my way.

Cheers ozgold."


Oz, is this meant to be serious? I suspect this is your snide way of denigrating Flak's comments and mine...if this forum is not open to other than Australians why not close it? I rarely post here just because of the rude manner and rabid bias of many posters...your loss, mate!
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters

Post  ozgold 041 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:43 am

Oz, is this meant to be serious? I suspect this is your snide way of denigrating Flak's comments and mine...if this forum is not open to other than Australians why not close it?  I rarely post here just because of the rude manner and rabid bias of many posters...your loss, mate!
fred[/quote]

==================================================================================

Hi Fred. M.

I know JP has made many friends in the USA that stick by him.

Your and Flaks backing posts adds to or (backs up), other Aussies here, showing that are supporting JP’s post regarding the new 19inch 7000 coil.

Surely my recognition post of both of you supporting him on this, is not unkind as you have stated??

JP’s Proof in his words and photos, is inspiring enough to both me and others to go out and buy one ASAP.

Have you both done so?

Cheers ozgold

PS You wouldn’t be a little upset presently, because Uncle Donald is to about to take over the reins in a few days?


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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  granite2 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:18 pm

I have never supported JP on much but it is a no brainer that an 18" coil will finder bigger deeper gold than a 14". It is basic logic even if you know nothing about electronics. When Coiltek released the 14" DD coil it was a great improvement over the 11" and the 18" found the bigger deeper gold the 14" missed. This worked just the same with the mono coils on the GP range. I use Coiltek coils as an illustration because I used them the most.
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  fredmason on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:16 am

Oz....maybe it is the language barrier, maybe you meant no harm, maybe I am an I***t...maybe all of the above. I think sarcastic people loose track of their own tongues...I was not always as perfect as I am now...

but, to your point; I don't yet own a 19 inch coil...my gold country is generally not suited to an open-web design. I dislike ALL open web coils and cried out to Minelab designers to enclose the coil...a couple more grams would not matter that much...When someone develops a functional cover I will get one....
I have found gold with every Minelab and every coil for those Minelabs; there is no reason to doubt...

I think personal attacks rather than rational arguments would serve you better...the attacks on JP and Minelab are repeats of the same bs that ran riot over most of the new models Minelab released....yet, the gold keeps coming. And that is the point!

Yes, I consider Jonathan my friend and as long as he has integrity I will defend his honour, as I would any other person being unjustly smeared.
fred

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Ridge Runner on Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:56 am

Just because it says London next to my user name is just a matter of Geography, fact is I am Australian.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Martin R on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:35 pm

Thanks JP for clearing a few things up, for me at least anyways, and the mentioning of our (yours and mine) mate Pete.
Both of you know your stuff and you're (both of you) guidance over the years has been top shelf in setting things straight , I to have found color with the 14"Z coil left behind one of them a 20gr
Its sad that forums in general are not what they used to be compared to the say, 3000/3500 days , JP I do miss your instructional DVD's as they helped so many of us out there I know the Z is far simpler to use but there are a few tricks one needs to learn for themselves this all takes time
Are there any plans in making a "Z" DVD ?

Cheers Marty

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Ответить с цитатой Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters

Post  andrei 74 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:26 am



Приветствую . Жду с нетерпением когда можно будет проверить катушку на 0.5 л пивную банку на 1 метр в глубину . Тест с 14 катушкой был провален . Она слепа на такую цель . Посмотрим на сколько лучше 19 катушка .

212/5000
Greetings. I look forward to when it will be possible to test the coil by 0.5 liter beer can 1 meter in depth. The test coil 14 was defeated. She is blind to such a goal. Let's see how much better 19 reel.
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Flakmagnet on Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:12 pm

ozgold, I think your ps was spot on.
("PS You wouldn’t be a little upset presently, because Uncle Donald is to about to take over the reins in a few days?")
It would have made me laugh if it weren't so crazy over here right now.

best…
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Harb on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:46 pm

andrei 74 wrote:

Приветствую . Жду с нетерпением когда можно будет проверить катушку на 0.5 л пивную банку на 1 метр в глубину . Тест с 14 катушкой был провален . Она слепа на такую цель . Посмотрим на сколько лучше  19 катушка .

212/5000
Greetings. I look forward to when it will be possible to test the coil by 0.5 liter beer can 1 meter in depth. The test coil 14 was defeated. She is blind to such a goal. Let's see how much better 19 reel.

We can get our beer at the local hotel here Andrel, but if you can dig it up there in Russia, I might consider moving over there........my guess is Siberia would be the hot spot for good cold beer jocolor

Мы можем получить наши пиво на местном отель здесь Andrel, но если вы можете dig вверх в России, я мог бы рассмотреть вопрос о переносе там.......................моя угадать - Сибирь будет hot spot для хорошего холодного пива
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19inch катушки GPZ

Post  andrei 74 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:04 pm


Our distributor does not know when the coil 19 will go to Russia. No price, there is no pre-order, there is no date of commencement of sales. The season will open at 3 months. . I'm nervous. We do not dig and drink beer (((.
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  the speciman on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:01 am

gday Andrei

over here in west oz we allways drink beer and dig.
cheers the speciman

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Gpz 19inch coil

Post  andrei 74 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:41 am

V11 V09
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Liquid Gold on Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:44 am

the speciman wrote:gday Andrei

over here in west oz we allways drink beer and dig.
cheers the speciman

Because it lowers the body temperature to cope with the heat. We have no choice..... lol!
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  AraratGold on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:42 pm

A short clip of one of 3 found today for 10 grams.
Note the almost non-existent response in difficult ground mode, but very bright signal in normal, which is the mode I was using today.
Sensitivity at 17, no audio smoothing.
Rick


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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  flouro on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 pm

Hi All,

Hey Rick, what about the 5.5oz 20mm away that is only 22" down that you just missed

Ron Smile

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  GOLDGASM on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:57 am

Great difference there rick, and congrats on your find. amazing how quiet the ground is on that property, the coil was quiet in normal even when you swung it over the gravel layer.

Cheers GG
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:38 am

Good vid
Thankyou for sharing that with us all.

It gives us a good confidence boost T06

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kevlorraine2 on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:42 am

ararat - your vid showing the obvious improvement in response in normal as versus difficult is why i wont take my 7000 out of normal.
if the ground is a bit difficult, i will move mountains to quieten the machine down useing any other method rather than put it into difficult ... kev Very Happy

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  AraratGold on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:14 pm

kevlorraine2 wrote:ararat -  your vid showing the obvious improvement in response  in normal as versus difficult is why i wont take my 7000 out of normal.
if the ground is a bit difficult, i will move mountains to quieten the machine down useing any other method rather than put it into difficult ... kev Very Happy

Same here Kev, I always try to run normal because it punches so much deeper than difficult ! You do get ground noise ( groans ), but the targets still come over the top of the groans.
I will often cross check iffy targets using difficult, because if it is ground noise the target will usually disappear.

Rick

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