GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  norvic on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:17 am

Thank you Bloodgold2, yeah seems I`m wasting my time here, I can feel the cool starting, paddocks are near slashed, time for the annual hit.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Jonathan Porter on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:48 am

There is a clear message here about metal detection, not all targets are measured by the detectors electronics by weight, the detector does not see weight it "see's" the field created by the target so depth is relative to that specific target and how slowly or quickly it loses its energy not the the last 26 gram bit you dug at 22 inches with a 14" coil on an old SD 2000!!! The detector has to energize the target and then it has to sense the target when the coil is passed through the targets signal plume, in this case the extreme edge of detection range of the nugget in question was too faint for the GPZ14 coil to sense properly hence a poor signal response.

The key points of this thread were to

  • Debunk negative comments about the GPZ19 coils performance


  • Demonstrate what the coil can do


  • Restore peoples confidence in their GPZ19 coil purchase


  • Give instruction to people on how to use the coil effectively based on my own personal experiences


  • Give the opportunity to debate the coils merits in a mature manner


  • Provide video proof of the coils real world performance ability


JP
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:22 am

The large 19 inch GPZ coil is what it is & as seen on JPs video, there clearly is a difference in detection depth between the 19 & 14x13 & that's all that's needed to convince the many GPZ users of its in ground output power, on buried un-disturbed gold nuggets.. So please could we all let the negative hype towards the 19 inch coil go & as said by JP, give the 19 inch coil a chance to prove itself, out on the field, in a positive way, debunking negative comments of the coils true in-ground working performance. Lets not forget there are many 19 inch coil owner/users that are happy with their 19 inch GPZ coils performance, when used under the right conditions, in areas where gold still abounds to be found.

Cheers Kon.
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  rockhunter62 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Couple of nice nuggets found with the 19" at depth over on the PA forum. Good on him. affraid

Cheers

Doug
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:05 pm

Norvic, this thread isn't about newbies, old experienced members, members becoming dealers, dealers becoming members or about Minelab itself etc etc. It's about members being allowed to voice their opinion on the working capabilities of a certain size/type coil, in use today, regardless if people wish to hear there comments or not. As long as the questions/comments/answers adhere to the rules of this forum, they will be seen as legitimate and here to stay.
To delete all/any negative comments about any product on the market in common use today, would be nothing more than scare mongering people of their rightful expression. People must not feel threatened nor intimidated to express their personal opinion on any Item in use (involved in the finding of gold)  that is of interest to us all.
I'v said this in the past & I'll say it again.  This forum is not a Minelab only forum.  Members here have the right to comment on any Item they've bought & used, in regards to the prospecting for gold game, regardless if their comments on the "items" in question, be on a good positive note or not.
Novic, if you'v lost all interest here, then may I suggest you get on board another forum, where no one has the right to bag anything, so that all comes out in a positive only manner. Either that or sit back, contribute nothing for a few years more & let the show go on.
In life, one either does or does not, but no point in bagging something or someone else, if we ourselves are culprits of the same.

Cheers Kon. Q11
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  goldchaser on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:29 pm

Has anyone tried **** Smiths vegemite?
13 yrs in development and it still tastes like shite,theres more important issues out there fellas.....
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  spinna on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:41 pm

Slimpickings and to a lesser degree Kon61


As far as I can make out, you have both sold your 19" coils.

Just move on and let those who still own a 19' coil continue the conversation  

Cheers   spinna


Last edited by slimpickens on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : peace and harmony)

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Goldchaser/Spinner, good point there fellas. Its all irrelevant now & getting us nowhere. Slim & I have said enough on this matter. Now lets see if we could get back on track, to something more promising/positive hey?

Kon. Q11

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  alchemist on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:12 am

goldchaser wrote:  Has anyone tried **** Smiths vegemite?
  13 yrs in development and it still tastes like shite,theres more important issues out there fellas.....

lol! HaaHaaa is that Richard Smith's vegemite?
Glad my names not '****', how would you like to be called ****?
One day they'll be smart enough to follow the context.

Kon I'm very sorry for you the Kraken turned out to be just a clucking hen.
ZVT is in its infancy, the Kraken may yet come one day.  

I suspect many good 19" finds have not been posted, it is better for owners to have less competition before likely areas are hit hard. I remember seeing maybe 80 oz worth in total of larger slugs posted in various places that weren't JP's within the first few weeks of release, but then it all went quiet, but perhaps the heat was to blame, the next 6 months will be interesting.

P.S. crikey it can even see **** in punctuation marks!


Last edited by alchemist on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:15 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Post script & spelling)
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  slimpickens on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:45 am

spinna wrote:Slimpickings and to a lesser degree Kon61


As far as I can make out, you have both sold your 19" coils.

Just move on and let those who still own a 19' coil continue the conversation
Cheers   spinna


spinna, Kon 61 had nothing to do with this, it was my complete f**k up. ( Kon's the fireman assigned to take care of my pyromania).  I completely misinterpreted the direction of JP's post and for that I apologise to JP.

Comment like this from JP did not help,
[quote="Jonathan Porter"]Going back through this post from the start, the silence from the original detractors of the GPZ19 coil on this thread is deafening.    I'm sitting here waiting to either sensibly and maturely debate and answer to those people on the GPZ19 coils merit or lack thereof as per this threads content and remarks or at the very least read an apology.

JP
He asks for debate, but not too serious debate, (which is the only type I do). I should have ignored the baiting.

Anyway, I'll attempt to clean up all my negative posts here, which means others that commented on my posts that don't make sense anymore will have to go too, which includes all negativity, sorry about that. Harry

PS. Once again, Kon 61 had nothing to do with the views in my posts. (I imagine he's reaching for the fire hose as I speak)


PPS. So go ahead Jonathan, the post and the floor is yours. Good Luck, and yes it was a great nugget find.


Last edited by slimpickens on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:21 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  spinifex on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:09 am

“ Gentlemen and Slim
Just trying to get back on track using the 19” coil for deep targets.
JP’s video has a 26 grams at 22 inches using general / difficult / sensitivity 9 and only just able to hear the target in normal, but clear as, in difficult.
Ricks (Ararat Gold) video has a 3.6 grams at about 8-10 inches using general ?/ normal/sensitivity 17 and the response so much better than difficult.
So we have two ground types giving opposing results. I would imagine the 14” coil would pick up the 3.6 grams at 8-10 inches even though the ground has been worked hard previously; nevertheless the 19” got it and very clear in normal/sensitivity 17. Videos are great for comparisons and learning.
Can someone explain why the opposing results between difficult and normal? Is it the ZVT technology requires a quite audio to allow the deeper signal response to be heard ( using difficult is quieter than normal) or the difficult signal pulse penetration is deeper than normal. Maybe none of the above.
I am confused as to what should be my go to mode using the 19” coil. General/Normal /Sensitivity 17 and if I am finding deeper gold say 10” plus, go over the area again using General/Difficult/Sensitivity 8. OR put the 14” on as my go to coil and if finding 10” plus deep larger or solid gold, put the 19” on and try the above.
I am looking forward to your reply and want to thank JP for starting this topic and his video, also Rick (Ararat Gold) for his video and everyone else for their positive comments.
Pete

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:38 pm

On another positive note, JP is not wrong in recommending  the settings he has given to all  & even though I was not lucky enough to lob onto gold with my 19 inch GPZ coil, my best all round settings using the 19 inch GPZ coil, over & in variably changing/or constantly high mineralized ground, was when the GPZ was set in  General/Difficult, smoothing off, sensitivity set at around 12+/-, threshold, volume/volume limit & pitch, set to suit the individual.
In the 3 months using the 19 inch coil, I had managed to pick up more lead, in the so called bread & butter size targets, ranging from 1.8gm,(small 22 size slug) right up to 19+gm lead balls, at depths that exceeded that of when operating in High Yeild/Difficult & far exceeded that of when using similar settings in Extra Deep.
By the way, the smoothest mode over highly mineralized ground is when operating the GPZ/19 inch coil in Extra Deep, but loss in depth over your gram/multi gram size stuff, is to dramatic. Extra Deep, I would recommend using only when swinging over very high/extreme mineralized soils & or when chasing the multi-ounce slugs & above at depth.
I generally hunt for gold in areas of average to high meneralization & could never use the General/Normal modes, not because the detector wouldn't punch even greater depths on positive targets with the 19 inch coil, but because of the high meneralization involved, small positive or faint positive target responses would blend in, as just another bit of ground noise, or the target signal, be drowned out by the ground minerals altogether, to the point of it not being able to be heard, as a positive target response.
The greatest sensitivity/depth will be achieved by the 19 inch GPZ coil when set in General/Normal, but only when/where ground conditions allow.
One would be achieving little (depth wise) when persisting to use General/Normal, in areas of high mineralization, whilst keeping sensitivity to an all time low, in order to compensate for ground mineral noise.

Cheers Kon. Q11
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Jonathan Porter on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:12 am

No text


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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  phoenix on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:21 am

JP I for one very much appreciate that clip.  It clearly shows what the 19" coil is capable of.
thanks Dave


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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Jonathan Porter on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:40 am

spinifex wrote:“ Gentlemen and Slim
Just trying to get back on track using the 19” coil for deep targets.
JP’s video has a 26 grams at 22 inches using general / difficult / sensitivity 9 and only just able to hear the target in normal, but clear as, in difficult.
Ricks (Ararat Gold) video has a 3.6 grams at about 8-10 inches using general ?/ normal/sensitivity 17 and the response so much better than difficult.
So we have two ground types giving opposing results. I would imagine the 14” coil would pick up the 3.6 grams at 8-10 inches even though the ground has been worked hard previously; nevertheless the 19” got it and  very clear in normal/sensitivity 17. Videos are great for comparisons and learning.
Can someone explain why the opposing results between difficult and normal? Is it the ZVT technology requires a quite audio to allow the deeper signal response to be heard ( using difficult is quieter than normal) or the difficult signal pulse penetration is deeper than normal. Maybe none of the above.
I am confused as to what should be my go to mode using the 19” coil. General/Normal /Sensitivity 17 and if I am finding deeper gold say 10” plus, go over the area again using General/Difficult/Sensitivity 8. OR put the 14” on as my go to coil and if finding 10” plus deep larger or solid gold, put the 19” on and try the above.
I am looking forward to your reply and want to thank JP for starting this topic and his video, also Rick (Ararat Gold) for his video and everyone else for their positive comments.
Pete

Hi Pete, I will attempt answer some of your questions here but there is a good chance it will lose its meaning dependent on what happens back in time on this thread.

There are a number of things going on to give the above results your mentioning. For starters the GPZ19 coil is less sensitive compared to the GPZ14 coil so in less mineralised soils the lower ground signal will be an advantage especially in Normal Ground Type modes. Ground signal can be deceptive but generally a lot of the depth loss is through the surface minerals being highly magnetic and cutting back on target signal due to the ground signal messing with the Tx and also ground signal volume drowning out the target signal volume, in these instances the Difficult Ground type mode is much better regardless of the target signal reduction because it is all relative to the ground signal. This is why I advocate always being conservative in the use of Sensitivity and Target Volume controls, I want to allow the deeper target signals to stand out from the surface signal clutter.

I would say the transmit field from the coil is very similar across the Ground type modes (just my opinion), it is the way the detector handles the receive signals that determines the removal of ground noise etc. In the case of my video the target signal was clearly better in Difficult compared to Normal because the ground signal was greater or adding to the target signal, also the target in question was falling into a range where Difficult generates a better signal response than Normal unless the ground signal was benign. This has a lot to do with where the GB has to operate for the given conditions but also just the way the Gold Modes work. So this explains the differences between the Ground types modes in my video.

However the real point of the video was to demonstrate the differences between the coils. There are two things going on there, one is the larger coil is less reactive to near to coil mineralisation and then there is the larger transmit field (not quite so important due to the inverse square law, but still important) but more importantly the greater receive area of the coil. The key here is a larger coil has a greater surface area and also less sensitivity to near to coil signal responses which all provide an advantage when chasing deeper targets except if there is salt signal present. Larger coils will always give stronger salt signals compared to smaller coils.

So in summary, it pays to go over your ground using a number of modes and coils sizes. I also highly recommend you use the coil for at least two hours to familiarise yourself with the way it behaves before discounting its effectiveness. The GPZ19 coil requires a measured approach which is dependent on weight, sensitivity and surface area of the receive.

JP
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  slimpickens on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:41 am

Jonathan, unfortunately you jumped in too early regarding the baiting. My post to spinna was going to be the last one to be deleted and then that would have been it. I only left it there an extra day so people could see my apology to you.

The only persons words that I "manipulated" were my own. I don't dictate to no one.

You have to accept my reasoning for deleting my posts was in the spirit of goodwill towards you.  

Now you can accept my apology for going off-topic on your thread, or continue this which will get you nowhere,and only confuse people who stop by to see your video, it's up to you. This is my last post on this matter.  Harry

PS. If I got it wrong in how I tried to put your thread back on track, then put it down to inexperience as a moderator and not what you called dictatorial.

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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  rc62burke on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:23 am

Hi JP.
When you say conservative settings, is there a tipping point where the setting is too conservative & you should opt for a different mode etc (yes I know its a wide open question, mostly due to lack of experience with the GPZ)
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  Jonathan Porter on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:40 am

\"slimpickens Moderator wrote: Jonathan, unfortunately you jumped in too early regarding the baiting. My post to spinna was going to be the last one to be deleted and then that would have been it. I only left it there an extra day so people could see my apology to you.

You've gone into my post and removed sections of it, I understand the complexities of forum moderation but in the end it comes down to you needing to proof read what you have written before hitting the send button to avoid having to go back and try and fix things after the fact. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, that's perfectly fine but don't regret your comments and think because you have the power of moderation you can magically go back in time and undo what you've said as well thinking its OK to adjust what I have said to better reflect your change of heart, the world doesn't work like that!



JP


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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:22 pm

Has all been said & done now fellas, is it all over?   Can we now please get back on track, to the positive facts, surrounding the 19 inch GPZ coils performance/capabilities.

Kon. Q11
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  G.B. on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:15 pm

kon61 wrote:On another positive note, JP is not wrong in recommending  the settings he has given to all  & even though I was not lucky enough to lob onto gold with my 19 inch GPZ coil, my best all round settings using the 19 inch GPZ coil, over & in variably changing/or constantly high mineralized ground, was when the GPZ was set in  General/Difficult, smoothing off, sensitivity set at around 12+/-, threshold, volume/volume limit & pitch, set to suit the individual.
In the 3 months using the 19 inch coil, I had managed to pick up more lead, in the so called bread & butter size targets, ranging from 1.8gm,(small 22 size slug) right up to 19+gm lead balls, at depths that exceeded that of when operating in High Yeild/Difficult & far exceeded that of when using similar settings in Extra Deep.
By the way, the smoothest mode over highly mineralized ground is when operating the GPZ/19 inch coil in Extra Deep, but loss in depth over your gram/multi gram size stuff, is to dramatic. Extra Deep, I would recommend using only when swinging over very high/extreme mineralized soils & or when chasing the multi-ounce slugs & above at depth.
I generally hunt for gold in areas of average to high meneralization & could never use the General/Normal modes, not because the detector wouldn't punch even greater depths on positive targets with the 19 inch coil, but because of the high meneralization involved, small positive or faint positive target responses would blend in, as just another bit of ground noise, or the target signal, be drowned out by the ground minerals altogether, to the point of it not being able to be heard, as a positive target response.
The greatest sensitivity/depth will be achieved by the 19 inch GPZ coil when set in General/Normal, but only when/where ground conditions allow.
One would be achieving little (depth wise) when persisting to use General/Normal, in areas of high mineralization, whilst keeping sensitivity to an all time low, in order to compensate for ground mineral noise.

Cheers Kon. Q11

Well written Kon. I totally agree about JP settings with minor adjustments to suit the individual and area. The 19 is a good coil if used sensibly. Match the ground to the coil with settings to match the ground. Yep l have also dug many deep holes for rubbish but have also dug gold. Regardless of whether you have a 19 or not if you have a Zed the gold will flow if used correctly. I also agree that the Zed and 14 inch coil is a deadly combo and in reality should be your first choice for all round detecting.
The 19 is another weapon in the arsenal but the 14 inch is the bread and butter with sprinkles on top.





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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:51 pm

Cheers G.B. One more thing I'd like to mention, is when trying to find your first bit of colour (hunting for a new patch), the 19 inch GPZ covers almost twice the amount of ground with every swing, than what its sibling 14x13 could achieve. Couple this to a sensitivity (on the smaller gram bits) almost as good as that of the 14x13 & a more powerful emitting coil field strength, one but can't help knowing, to having a killer combination on, for small or large gold at depth.

Cheers guys. Kon. Q11
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  goldchaser on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:42 pm

kon61 wrote:Cheers G.B.  One more thing I'd like to mention, is when trying to find your first bit of colour (hunting for a new patch), the 19 inch GPZ covers almost twice the amount of ground with every swing, than what its sibling 14x13 could achieve. Couple this to a sensitivity (on the smaller gram bits) almost as good as that of the 14x13 & a more powerful emitting coil field strength, one but can't help knowing, to having a killer combination on, for small or large gold at depth.

Cheers guys.  Kon. Q11

I dont think the 19" is suited for patch hunting,when we go walking the hills looking for patches we generally walk 10-15klms a day,you need to be light an mobile and be able to swing quick-walk at a decent pace swing under bushes between rocks etc etc,it doesnt lend itself to that type of detecting.....
Well you could use it but theres much easier ways to get the job done.....
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  goldchaser on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:25 pm

Yeah sorry Kon i was gonna stay out of this wasnt i but as a patch hunting coil i near had a hernia Very Happy

Alchemest-was listening to late night talk show at work the other week and they had a ring in on peoples odd names,some bloke rang in,he had a neighbour,his surname was Face so what did his parents name him- yes Richard...... Shocked
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  kon61 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:04 pm

No probs goldchaser, I know the 14x13 is heavy enough for patch hunting & the 19 even heavier, but whether we like it or not, that's all that's available for the GPZ 7000 at the moment.
Now I also know when patch hunting people walk many a klm, but lets face it, how much of that ground do you actually cover in a 10 klm+ hike, I'll tell ya (& pardon the pun)  **** all.  Smile  In reality, one is basically covering a straight line, swinging from left to right, when walking 10 to 15 klm  a day & even that's not properly covered.
The amount or length of ground coverage, (quantity of search pattern) although important, is not as important as walking the same 10/15 klms a day, concentrating ones search, to the signs of where gold most likely, could be lying on or trapped in. (quality of search)
Yes, there is truth in that,  "Gold is, where you find it", but many a detectorist, is not where they should be swinging a coil, so as to increase their chances of finding it. Smile  how many are the ones that lob on to a piece of gold at random & look no further than the hole it came out from?  So many signs as to why the gold was found there & few are the ones that actually pay attention, in stopping to read & try to understand them.  
Gold is not found everywhere, in any one place or locality. It tends to migrate from its host rock & then congregate together, trapped in a section of ground/clay/rock, according to the laws of weathering, degree of slope & gravity.
Jumping out of the vehicle, switching the detector on and swinging at random, is good when jumping into/onto a surfaced gully/creek/ surfaced flat, or when tackling a lead full of mullock piles, but not when searching for virgin patches over virgin scrub land.
What ever exists/existed, in/on a surfaced gully/creek or flat, in way of dirt/clay/rock etc, also exist on or underneath, sections of virgin, gold bearing, flat ground or gully's. Understanding if the ground is shallow enough & the gold underneath big enough to be detectable & within reach of a metal detectors coil, is the key to a successful patch hunt, or many klms of walking/swinging, for tiresome nothing.

Cheers Kon. Q11
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Re: GPZ 19 coil and other matters (Post back on track)

Post  G.B. on Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:19 am

As a patch hunting coil common sense applies.
I have used the 19 coil numerous times for patch hunting given the right terrain.

In other occasions when patch hunting and busting scrub l've strapped an 8 inch to the 4500 and have also done very well.

There is not a one coil fits all types of scenarios but if there was l would say the GPZ 14 would be the closest you can get to an all round coil.

When patch hunting I use a coil to suit the terrain I,m searching in.

What I find is more important in having a detector that is capable of handling the varying ground conditions with ease. The GPX's with their auto ground balance and quick track buttons if using fixed worked a treat and add that to various ground type modes and you have a good capable detector.

However the GPZ has gone up another level I find with its superb ground balance, emi immunity, sensitivity and ground modes you can be sure that you won't miss much if you swing over it.

You want a detector that you can cover ground easily with rather than having to stop every 20 or 30 metres or so to ground balance.

Anybody who thinks that when patch hunting if you don't find gold there wasn't any there is kidding themselves if you are in the right area then you will always miss far more gold than you will find. Finding a piece is a bonus that gives you an area to concentrate on. More importantly when patch hunting is finding areas of interest that you mark in order to go back and work thoroughly later on.

Using the GPZ and 19 coil as a combo covers most bases as it it sensitive, stable and punches deep. Even when coming into scrubby areas if you plan your path ahead of you as you go doesn't present much of a problem exept if the scrub is very dense. Raising you coil above logs and tussocks you can be assured that if anything within reason is hidden under neath you still have a good chance of finding it.

This has happened several times when lifting the coil to step over logs l have got a signal as l swung above the log. Some were gold and most were rubbish but the sensitivity of the 19 picked it out well above ground level.

The biggest thing is to use to the best ability of what you have available to use.
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G.B.
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