Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

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Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  alchemist on Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:47 am

In the early days you could "hobby fossick" by just having a Prospectors Right which you could purchase at post offices near goldfield areas. This allowed you to take samples and search for a deposit or decent patch that you could claim. A good system for detecting since you need to often wander far and wide all over the show just to locate gold at detectable depths, as you all know.

A number of years ago the white collar bureaucrats extingushed these "hatter" rights by adding legislation that effectively excluded the recreational fossickers. To compensate for this they set up a number of public hand tools only, fossicking areas which were sections of the creekbed only.

I tried a number of these fossicking areas and recovered a few flakes. For instance one creek had been turned over, top to bottom, side to side, a total of five times between 1860 and 1932. Another had been worked with pick and shovel and then the whole lot had been through at least one dredge, no wonder these go a couple of thin flakes per cubic meter. Only flat out escapees from the dredge and miners' sluice boxes remain.

I contacted Crown Minerals many years ago about the plight of detectorists, because our activity was made illegal unless we stuck to the public fossicking areas, or folked out thousands for prospecting and mining licences. The chap must have been aware of the "spotty" nature of detecting and that it didn't fit in with legislation at the time. He suggested I keep it tidy, keep my head down, stay off claims, and as long as I was not finding more than 3 kilos a year I'd be okay, (a low gold price compared to today) and new up coming legislation would be more amiable to fossickers.

Well it never got better only worse, and 2014 brought very stiff penalties for interferring with tailings (heritage environmental damage).

For illegal mining (No distinction for fossicking) they can seize your truck, detectors, and any other equipment you use, charge you up $200,000 or if you're poor and can't cough it up, 2 years behind bars (you can commit murder and be back on the street in 7)

This is why most canny Kiwi hunters don't post on forums or show their finds, not only is the tax man watching, the royalties man is too.

The legislation is so rightwing leaning and complex it ensures that big investers through large capialist ventures are catered for all to the exclusion of local independant small timers or hobbyists. Just the process of obtaining a permit is a protracted and odious task, best served by an accountant and lawyer. King **** we need you.

They say they need to implement this exhaustive red tape fascade so that all royalties are extracted, but they could simply do that when gold is sold, as all registered gold buyers must record the sellers name. Smoke and mirrors jobs for bureaucrats.

Unfortunately mum and dad detectorists have been lumped in with the greedy cowboy dredgers whose roughshot antics have really brought things to breaking point.

Due to the limited amount of available ground in NZ and even less that's suitable for electronic prospecting, the days of nugget hunting as we know it as a legitimate hobby are gone.

I'm considering jumping the ditch, but I get a sense that even in Aussie the noose is tightening on the common blue collar bloke and his freedoms. We need to keep awake the spirit of Eureka and not go down without a fight. After all, the gold belongs to the people, rich and poor, young and old alike. Government agencies are there to protect the gold and the environment for the people, and not to protect the gold from the people.

I think many in the States in all sectors of society have had enough too, the time will soon come for a meltdown and liberation from these growing draconian impediments to our shrinking freedom.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/28/on-the-hunt-for-illegal-miners-as-a-new-gold-rush-hits-new-zealand


Last edited by alchemist on Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  Harb on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:21 am

So who's the Harley riding politician in Vic going to be then.......Smile
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  Imadogman on Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:21 pm

Time to get behind your local state fossicking group with active membership, or set one up if there is not one.



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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  kiwijw on Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Can you seriously see him riding that thing up a South Island glacial river shingle bed??? I doubt he would even get it off the tar seal.





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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  mintcar on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:32 pm

A very sad time for us, This has been a slow creep on us that we have not been able to stop YET Bill

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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  alchemist on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:55 pm

MBI admitted that they have turned a blind eye to fossickers for decades, but the greed and cheek of some have forced their hand.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the bike shown is the one provided by PMNZ. Royalties are missing for hundreds of kilos per year they will give him a chopper or jetboat whatever he needs for investigations and he is no doubt the first of many to come.

$7,500 just to lodge a permit application from this month!

They should be making it easier for unemployed Coasters to get stuck in, typical Wellington shiny bum suits and their high handed revenue before people solutions.
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  kiwijw on Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:40 pm

There is fossicking...... & there is out right bigger scale illegal mining. Why cant they seperate the two instead of lumping us all together under the one unbrella?
Kev...what are your thoughts on the 19" coil? Cheers

JW V08
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  alchemist on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:55 am

kiwijw wrote:There is fossicking...... & there is out right bigger scale illegal mining. Why cant they seperate the two instead of lumping us all together under the one unbrella?
Kev...what are your thoughts on the 19" coil? Cheers

JW V08

I gave my final thoughts here
http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t24598-gpz-19-enterprise

But after seeing the changing attitude and ignorance of detectorists plight from PMNZ, I am contemplating ditching all my gear. It's all busted, detectable gold is just spread too far and wide and generally so spotty it would cost a fortune to claim enough ground and pay yearly maintenace fees, I don't want to be buying a dozer or digger and screens or wet dredge, I'm an electronics engineer, my biggest passion in life is recovering gold particles by electronic means.

Just watch, they'll start seizing more assets than just your truck, detectors and any gold stash, just like they do with druggists.

Bill are you a member of an already organised group?
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  mintcar on Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:02 am

Hi Alchemist That is a great post by you Thank You, No organized groups around here I just keep my head down, you will not be able to dig a post hole soon. Bill

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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  kiwijw on Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:35 pm

Thanks Kev for that link. I missed seeing that post. I doubt very much that I will be getting the 19" coil. Thanks too for the info & warnings regarding your other posts. Cheers

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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  goldtalkleonora on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:28 pm

I only know a bit about prospecting in Western Australia but as I see it, economic prospecting is finished in pretty well everywhere but Western Australia.
I'm also bias when it comes to the West! Unfortunately, the environmental extremists are well entrenched in the government departments that effect prospecting and so much so that I give professional prospecting maybe another ten years or so....maybe. Hobby detecting will also be effected and so enjoy it whilst it lasts. It sounds a bit doom and gloom...and it is....but it's very hard to reason with or fight against people on a crusade.
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  davsgold on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:42 pm

It's not quite to late yet Tony, but if we prospectors/detector operators and all the other outdoor users don't get with opposite crusade to the one your referring to it will be to late.

The Eureka (crusade) changed it once and it lasted for a good while, but it won't last forever if we all just wait for something to happen, in the end something will happen, and we will just be looking at videos and photos of what we used to do

Give as much support to PMAV, APLA and NAPFA etc and any of the pollies that are prepared to help. I don't know what organizations etc are in NZ but hopefully there is something there to help all those that want to use the outdoors for recreation and enjoyment.

cheers dave
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  granite2 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:58 pm

G'day Kiwi, when we were over in the land of the long white cloud (south island) last year we saw two blokes working the beach about a km south of Cape Foulwind on the west coast. They were doing pretty good with their set-up. They had a fire pump pumping water from a creek and sucking sand up through what looked like a deep-well jet pump venturi head. The slurry then went into a series of riffle boxes before running back out onto the beach. They said they were getting an average of 1 to 2 grams per hour for a ten hour day but had done better.

Is it legal for hobbiests to do this as I reckon its a great idea? Twenty grams per day is darn good money when your only cost is a few litres of fuel and you are doing absolutely no environmental damage, even divided between two people. Even one gram an hour is pretty good money.

Cheers, Jim
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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  kiwijw on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:26 pm

Hi Jim, Yes there are quite a few black sand beach claims being worked on the West Coast. I had a look at one set up when I went to the coast to get my Zed. This guy was doing it full time. There are a few up for sale on our local online auction site Trademe. Even a bucket line dredge if you are interested. LOL Smile
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchString=+gold+mining+&type=Search&searchType=all&user_region=100&user_district=0&generalSearch_keypresses=6&generalSearch_suggested=0&generalSearch_suggestedCategory=

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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  alchemist on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:03 am

granite2 wrote:

Is it legal for hobbiests to do this as I reckon its a great idea? Twenty grams per day is darn good money when your only cost is a few litres of fuel and you are doing absolutely no environmental damage, even divided between two people. Even one gram an hour is pretty good money.

Cheers, Jim

Jim if they don't have all the permits and consents, then yes, it's illegal. Nearly all 'productive' beaches are claimed up, and to claim any remaining would cost you quite a few tens of thousands, just for a "hobby" claim. It's all now becoming a business venture only concern, as there are so many costs involved, consultants, lawyers, resource, heritage and Iwi consents, DOC, LINZ and Council consents and environmental impact reports etc., every few years brings increasing requirements and costs.

New Zealand is now stuffed really Jim. For example when I was a boy you could catch 40lb Atlantic salmon in the river that ran next to our town, we spent all summer swimming and playing and fishing in the river, now the salmon are gone, signs warn you not to swim in the river, it is polluted by agricultural runoff, bovine urine and excrement, and this has occurred not just to this one river but three within 70kms of coastline.

City blokes sit in Wellington with this image of NZ in their minds of a “Clean Green 100% pure countryside” and they sell it to the world as such, but they are mistaken. They advertise this “100% pure” lie without first giving any thought to the actual reality of the coalface or the state of the supporting infrastructure. They just imagine all the Chinese, European and US tourists with big fat wallets arriving and spending millions, but instead get 100s of thousands of backpackers, travelling and sleeping in cars. In reality the whole shooting box is due for collapse. Many of the roadside places we used to stop and lay out a rug and have a picnic are now littered with rubbish and human excrement, the knobs in Wellington didn’t think about toilets or roadside rubbish bins before selling us to the world did they.

The suits & ties have the university degrees to sit in Wellington getting shiny backsides all day, but they have no practical wisdom or understanding of what it's really like in rural NZ. When you eat your piece of NZ Orange Roughy spare a thought for the tons of fish that are dumped like refuse to get your fillet.....the same government department that controls this, also controls the mining agency. I could go on about many other things but as far as mining is concerned, if you’ve got the money, you can sway the suits anywhere you want.

Over here the IRD (taxman) is responsible for a number of suicides, I am certain that PMNZ will drive a number of others to take their own life, and blood will be on the Minister's hands too. For me personally, reading that article has left me grief stricken, truly it was like a close friend had died. I got clean from drugs and growing and selling the stuff 27 years ago and gold detecting was one of the things I have to thank for saving my life, and no doubt others, but I now feel cheated. I have a criminal record for drugs possession so I could easily carry on and break the law, but it would seem a defeat to me, what integrity and conscience I had regained would be totally lost. Crown Minerals told me that they would fix it so that you could detect without breaking the law, but the ground they have provided is practically useless, maybe my life is over anyway?

Kev.


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Re: Tourists BEWARE - Death knell for New Zealand nugget hunting hobby -

Post  granite2 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:29 pm

Hi Kev, when we were over there last year there was a huge furore about some politicians cattle drinking, wading and s******g in what was a town or cities water supply. Threats of court action huge fines etc had us bewildered.

I don't about over there but here in Australian we have wildlife as well as stock s******g, p*****g, swimming and wading in water supplies and no one gives a damn. Why, because its natural. When we were kids we swam in the town river where all the above happened for a 100km upstream and none of us suffered.

We survived on cows milk direct from our parents couple of cows, drunk water from our rainwater tanks that had no covers and sometimes a bird or possum was found dead in it. Did we suffer and dire disease? No. Not even a bellyache. What it did do was fire up our immune systems so that we hardly suffer from any of the problems cityites do.

Kev, it sounds as if you are from the old school like us. We have lived through the best years our part of the world has ever seen. We have had freedoms today's people can only dream of. And those freedoms were directly responsible from our own and parents actions that built a civilized world that is fast disappearing.

We continue to enjoy most of those freedoms such as detecting almost wherever we want and we will continue to do so until we can no longer swing a detector, and that time is not that far off, ten years if we are lucky. We see university trained experts on everything running things in such a way that confirms what I have long said, some of the dumbest people I have ever met were university trained.

Kev, keep enjoying every day like there is no tomorrow and remember the days when we were Free Range Kids, even when we grew up.

Cheers, Jim


Last edited by Mike54 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Cleaned up the bad words.)
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