Pegging a lease in W.A

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Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:55 am

Hi all that may be interested
I was asked this question and thought it would be a good topic to talk about
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This was a question sent to me by a member

I was just looking at your post re last years WA finds where you mentioned that you have got some leases in WA for this year.
I was wondering what sort or type of lease you have, is it a "prospecting lease" ? I've seen prospecting leases on Tengraph but know nothing about them.

I would like to know things like the cost, the time frame ie how long they last and how long do they take to get, the size of the area allowed, the difficulty in getting a lease like this and any other conditions, like over what type of ground (pending/exploration/mining) you can get it. Is it only 1 lease over the area or can there be several on the same area as with the 40e.
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its nothing like a 40e where more then one person can take out a 40e
Over the same area
It can not be land thats already under a lease. ( not sure about exploration lease's though )
If you know how to use tengraph, then you would see areas that are black. They are where there is nothing Over the land.

Where we took out our lease, they were dropped.. mining companys can take up much more ground then us Prospectors,
they get massive amounts of ground.
So when they drop some of their lease's
They then becomes available..

First of all it cost us $2:50 cents a hectare, you can have up to 200 hectares per lease. You dont need to go that big.
so an application fee for each lease, from memory was $317:30 each.
Plus the $2:50 per hectare up front. Thats the rent that has to be paid each year.
go to Dmp, get the forms, ask any questions you may have.
The Leonora Dmp was very helpful to us, we showed them the area we wanted to put the lease on,  she got all the gps points up, we asked if she could print it out, no worries.  That helped us a lot.
Went back with some pegs, ribbon, shovel, gps, got all the gps points down on our form. Placed the pegs into the ground, Tied a copy of paper work to the datum peg for both leases (recorded the time) and went back to DMP,
paid our fees.
Sent a copy to the pastoralists, DMP gave us the name and address
Then we wait. Takes up to 8 months, if approved,
we have our lease.
They go for 4 years, with the option to renew for another 4 years
We do have to spend money on them each year..
its called expenditure.
but you can claim things like your food, your camping costs,
will know more once we get the paper work.

once its your lease, you can ask people to move along  (politely of course )  as no detecting is allowed without your permission,
always let the pastoralist know when you are there,
give them your lease number if They arent sure where it is, as they receive a copy of the paper work also.
let them know when you leave.. don't leave a mess,
and you shouldnt have any trouble
Hope that this answers any one else who may be thinking how it works

I have probably forgotten a few things..  ( sorry )
I also have a question???
Can you put a prospecting lease over a exploration one????

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:32 am

You need EL holders permision to peg PL over it.

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Alan WA on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:51 am

You can peg a SPL over an El or P.
The E or P holder has to have a good reason to object.

Special Prospecting Lease that is.
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  AnnieL on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:39 pm

These links may help those interested  - http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Minerals/Mining-Tenements-explained-5145.aspx

And http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Documents/Minerals/132287_Marking_Out_and_Applying_for_Mining_Tenements.pdf

cheers
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:35 pm

most of that is 'about right'. No distinction between company's and individuals with P's and E's and M's.....I can have more ground than a company if I'm prepared to pay for it. You only need permission to peg an SPL over an existing M...SPL's over E's and P's can be pegged and then contested in court.
You do not need to let the pastoralist when you are going there and when you are leaving....you have an equal right to the ground. If you really want to learn what's what...come and do a training course....I'll tell you all about it and some of the secrets of it.
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:03 pm

Thanks for the info everyone.. learning heaps myself

Hi goldtalkleonora

If we dont have to let the pastoralist know..
Yet when they do a drive through and see you, then have a go at you for not notifying them..
What if they are doing a muster?
Have roo shooters in???
I know they only lease the land as well
One pastoralist said they like to know where we are in case someone gets lost.
And all of the above

What are our rights there?
Not that its happened to us.. just wondering?

Thanks
Jen

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:27 pm

Hi Jen....it's a huge question and unfortunately the law has been misunderstood for a long time.

First of all I would say....pick up the phone and make contact..you have more to gain out of making friends than enemies.

Problems occur when one side of the equation are stupid and cause the other side grief.  That can be prospectors OR pastoralists.

Thing is, under the Mining ACt, and the Mining Act (1978) and it's Regulations is the 'senior' legislation at play, you only have a requirement to ATTEMPT to notify the pastoralist and obey reasonable requests with regards to passing within 400m of wells, bores and infrastructure. If you aren't going near the homestead or past their wells then it is none of their business. If they are mustering...so what??....go and sit in your vehicle whilst they are moving through...then get back to work...they have no right to tell you to bugger off....end of. It's common practice for the dumb pastoralists to start on about shooting etc etc.....as I have said in previous posts, this is covered under the Firearm Act and long story short...the onus is on the person discharging the firearm to have reasonable knowledge of where an expended round will fall should it miss it's intended target. That is....if you are prospecting legally then you have every right to be there and people also have an obligation to work around you. ******* accused me a while back of hating pastoralists....I don't....But in hindsight I think it certainly looks like I crap on a bit....thing is....I alway's see pastoralists and prospectors and government departments either misquote or misrepresent the Mining Act and we have to be very very careful here....with time the 'accepted practice' can easily become the law. That is why I generally poke my head up and say..no....this is what the law actually is.

As I have alway's said.....if everyone get's along then things work great...it is only when one side of the equation get an over inflated opinion of themselves and start to act like they own the place that problems occur. It's no different than when you get fronted by other prospectors out in the paddocks...they will tell you to bugger of cause it's 'my lease'. If you don't know what the rules are and in this example where you are then your probably going to move on. It's important to know what your rights and obligations are as prospectors in Western Australia.
Hope that's of some help.
cheers

Tony Pilkington


Last edited by Jen58 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed name)
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:37 pm

Thankyou Tony

I fully understand.
Might catch up over there

Learning more and more.

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  davsgold on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:15 pm

There is one other cost associated with a prospecting lease, council rates, can't quite remember but a 200ha is around $400 and if you have over 10ha it is a minimum of around $300 or so

Keep it under 10ha and there is no council rates.

Also you can only apply to peg 1 x 10ha SPL on a 200ha prospecting lease. (Maximum size of a SPL is 10ha) (Maximum size of a Prospecting lease is 200ha)

One person can apply to peg upto 10 x 10ha SPL's on a large exploration lease

It's good to have one or more prospecting leases. Very Happy

A person can apply for a single graticular block (aprox 310ha) Exploration Lease, slightly dearer than a 200ha Prospecting Lease

Each type of lease has an expenditure requirement, can be covered by yourself detecting or loaming hand sampling panning etc on the lease, just add up the hours of your work x your hourly rate till you get to the required expenditure. Very Happy

cheers dave
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:48 pm

Hi Dave, dont want to be a smart A*s*......
You can peg/apply for one 10haSPL per 200ha aggregate. That means only one SPL can be pegged on a P as the maximum area for a P is 200ha.
Note that you can peg more than one SPL on a P IF you have written consent from the tenement holder. So with an E ...it comes down to how big the E is....ie if it's 10 graticular blocks...then it's 10 x 310ha = 3100ha divide that by 200 = 15 and change and so therefore you can have 15 x 10ha SPL's on that one E. If it's a 5 block E then it's 5 x 310ha = 1550ha divide by 200 = 7 and change.... means you can have 7 SPL's.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  davsgold on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:10 pm

All good Tony, it's kinda like I was trying to say, you know it's not an easy thing to try and describe. Laughing

cheers dave
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  davsgold on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:13 pm

all I know is we have 1 x 200ha P and a half share in a 120ha P and one 9.5ha SPL we dig our own pegging and marking out etc, and learned a few things along the way. Very Happy

cheers dave
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:52 pm

Thankyou all

I am sure a few answer's have been answered.

For us, we will keep doing what we always have,
and thats to give a courtesy call to the pastoralist or station manager.
better to be friends than enemies
Plus one station manager even told us where to find gold and camp.
True!  Twisted Evil

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Nightjar on Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:44 am

Jen58 wrote:Thankyou all

I am sure a few answer's have been answered.

For us, we will keep doing what we always have,
and thats to give a courtesy call to the pastoralist or station manager.
better to be friends than enemies
Plus one station manager even told us where to find gold and camp.
True!  Twisted Evil

Yes Jen, A few moons back we dropped in at the Black Flag homestead to let the Pastoralist know we were interested in doing some dry blowing.
We had a trailer in tow loaded up with dryblowers and camping gear.
He said to us instead of putting your tents up follow me. He took us too an old abandoned prospectors shack and said, "Kick the spiders out and you're welcome to bunk down here."
What a godsend, if there was any moisture around it would have snowed over the nights we were there. A roaring fire in the shack and we were as snug as bugs in a rug.
The pastoralist visited us even bringing us some water over the week we were there.
To show our appreciation we dropped in on the way home and left him with our left over supplies and a carton of coldies.
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  GOLDEN CRACK on Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:32 am

pegging an SPL--well for one u want to make sure u have got the easy gold coz everyone else will find it for u--- until such time its granted-6-12 months depending if theres no objections. This will hold u up even longer. 12-18 months of free prospecting for everyone.

pegging any lease will cost u money and even if unsuccessful it still cost u your application fee even if u get it wrong and its recindered..

my suggestion to anyone on pegging an SPL on a P and that is to: make sure u have permission coz if the owners are working their claim and have a POW-P on that claim then u will have absolutely no chance of getting anything, further more the owners may come (will come) and dig it up coz they have the right paperwork in anyway.

also I reckon u will have a hard time with an SPL on an E once again if the owners have a POW in place they can successfully argue in their favour --if u get written permission then u are about 8 months away from being granted, depending on native title and heritage.

if u peg a P or SPL over 2 E's for argument sake then I reckon u have done your doe....the rules are easy to work out. been there done that and yes u loose your application fee.

pegging a P over a pending E then good luck with that--u wont be a happy chappy--once again u will do your doe

cheers

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:15 am

Hi Golden Crack....you don't peg a P over an E.
If your pegging an SPL then you never do that unless you have REALLY worked the area well.....an SPL on Tengraph is like fat kids on a cupcake.
But your only pegging an SPL if you want to conduct ground disturbing activities.
You only need written permission if you want to peg an SPL on a live M (Mining Lease). You only peg SPL's on P's and E's once you have done your homework and believe you have a good chance of winning. This can come down to several different things and is the 'art' of acquiring ground.
Generally speaking, what you say is true....if the tenement holder is working the ground then it's almost impossible to win the case. I for one, never peg SPL's on private individuals ground and only peg on company ground when I know I have a good chance to win. As to the secrets of ground acquisition....not for public forums mate..took me a long time and a lot of heart ache to learn the game!!
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  GOLDEN CRACK on Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:00 pm

your right--dont peg a P over an E.---but it still happens.

the DMP will still take your money knowing that what u have done is wrong.

cheers.

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:06 pm

there are certain times...in certain circumstances where you want to peg something over something else and you know that the application won't proceed.....and I want to still be able to do that as it's an important tool in the shed. If you have simply stuffed up and pegged incorrectly then more fool you....there is plenty of help out there and I'm guessing you didn't ask for help.
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  GOLDEN CRACK on Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:14 pm

NAH WASNT ME--but from what I see and hear a lot of novices seem to think that if they ask for help prior to pegging a lease that the person whom they are asking for advice may peg it prior..

my advice is always free and I don't mind helping anyone at no cost..


cheers

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:22 pm

GOLDEN CRACK wrote:

my advice is always free and I don't mind helping anyone at no cost..


cheers

Cheers V09

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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  kiwijw on Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:58 pm

Hi Jen & Nightjar, I'm with you guys. I like your approach. A bit of common decent courtesy, manners & respect costs nothing & can go a long way. Why make things difficult & potentially get off side with the pastoralist. T06

Good luck out there

JW V08
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Re: Pegging a lease in W.A

Post  goldtalkleonora on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:00 pm

I'm the same golden crack....I do make money out of helping people in some way's...but I'll alway's help where I can.....it may cost you a bottle of red but even that's negotiable!!
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