Detecting on aboriginal land.

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Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Birdman on Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:57 pm

What is the go with this?

I have a mixed understanding. Some say ask permission to be on the land but it is not compulsory but is a courtesy.

The other question what are mining companies like with signing agreements with you regarding prospecting on their live tenaments.

It seems that all the areas i want to go are under live tenament. The companies seem to take land outside of the gold as well which makes access very difficult indeed.

kind regards birdman
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Goldbait on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:47 am

the way i see it. we are all part of this land.

as long as you do not desecrate any sacred images or the like then there really shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:57 am

Goldbait wrote:the way i see it. we are all part of this land.

as long as you do not desecrate any sacred images or the like then there really shouldn't be a problem.

Yep well said GB.

Mick,

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  AraratGold on Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:36 am

Guys,
You will have a full understanding if you get caught. They will throw the full resources of Aboriginal legal aid at you.
Aboriginal land is treated exactly the same as other freehold land in the eyes of the law, and you will be prosecuted.
The trouble with " sacred " sites is that you will not know it is " sacred " until you camp on it, or take a dump on it, or dig a hole on it, and then you are up sh#t creek without a paddle !
Ignorance of the sacred site is no excuse, as you are already trespassing !
I worked for the NT Lands Dept for 17 years, and have seen more than my fair share of people caught on Aboriginal land.

Hope this sheds some light for you.
Cheers,
Rick
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Prospecting_Australia on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:12 am

Detecting on Aboriginal land requires a Mining Access Permit. It is a lengthy and complex process and not all requests are approved. If you intend to pass through Aboriginal land in order to access tenements outside the reserve, then a Mining Access Permit is also required.

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Birdman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Who builds the roads through the reserve? do they have a right to charge a toll on those roads?
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Goldbait on Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:21 pm

In response to this thread.

Where i go detecting there is an old rock called 'Chinamens Rock'. strangley enough a chinamen lived in this rock 150 years ago. hense the name.

Aborigionals have put paintings in this rock within the last few years. The land is on freehold public access land.

No to argue the law ( i should know better ), but the stubborn side of me says that if they are approaching on public freehold land and desecrating a rock with unauthentic drawings, then couldn't they be done for grafitti, or could it be said that they are desecrating 'white' public access land and they should be charged.
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  reg on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Goldbait wrote:In response to this thread.

Where i go detecting there is an old rock called 'Chinamens Rock'. strangley enough a chinamen lived in this rock 150 years ago. hense the name.

Aborigionals have put paintings in this rock within the last few years. The land is on freehold public access land.

No to argue the law ( i should know better ), but the stubborn side of me says that if they are approaching on public freehold land and desecrating a rock with unauthentic drawings, then couldn't they be done for grafitti, or could it be said that they are desecrating 'white' public access land and they should be charged.


yea jase those paintings caught my eye as well, i have seen some fare dinkum paintings and those are new maybe they done them and claim sacred site ???
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Goldbait on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:55 pm

thats what i'm thinking.

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Prospecting_Australia on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:50 am

Birdman wrote:Who builds the roads through the reserve? do they have a right to charge a toll on those roads?

As with all activities, there are rules, regulations and responsibilities. It is your responsibility to ensure you are not breaking the law while enjoying your activity. Do the necessary research and don't rely on anyone's opinion alone, even if they are old hands. I've seen enough info peddled thats both misleading and outright wrong. Doing the wrong thing only spoils it for the rest of us.

If its not a public road than its private and technically you need permission to travel on it. In WA if you have a Miner's Right than you can enter pastoral leases and vacant crown land for purposes of prospecting, but you are required to take reasonable steps to inform the pastoralist of your planned activities. Best to ask permission to make them feel good. This will put you on the right side of things. Pastoralists can and might make it very difficult for you if you rub them the wrong way. They may be entitled to some form of compensation for using their tracks etc. if they really wanted to.

If the land is private, reserved (including Aboriginal) or under tenement than that's off limits to prospecting without written permission.

Public roads don't require permission or permits to travel on (WA & NT). However, public roads can suddenly change to private. Passing through Aboriginal land usually requires a Transit Permit, but this may not allow camping, sightseeing or even stopping your vehicle. In which case, you will need a Entry/Access Permit. As mentioned earlier, forget about prospecting. If you do take that risk, expect the wrath of the law to fall upon you, and make no mistake, you will be lucky to escape with just your underpants.

It may seem unfair that 2% of the population holds 20% of the land mass of Australia, but the time for debate has well and truly passed. The best anyone can do now is never vote Labour and NEVER EVER Greens. The watermelons will insist we all live in eco-friendly multi-million dollar homes and attend their weekend get-togethers with dreadlocked hair wearing only grass skirts while working in state run communities growing, drying and exporting cash crops of pot.

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  everhopeful on Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:15 pm

I have spent sometime on the opalfields at Mintabie in Sth Australia, where you are requires to have a permit to enter onto aboriginal land..Is it so hard to ask permission and do we not ask permission to detect on private land owned(?) by a white man?

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Birdman on Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:47 pm

It seems this has become very politicised, with greens leaders, aboriginal activists and lawyers.

I think the lawyers will be loving their money from the kimberly gas hub controversy.

It will be interesting to see if it will set precedents.

Their are native title claims all over the place and growing in western australia. It will make it hard to be a recreational prospector if you need to deal with the indigineous affairs and they treat you like a multi national mining company.

I know some communities in the kimberly charge tourists for being on their land for recreational barramundi fishing. What is more interesting is that when a native title claim comes up for grabs, you get blow ins - not from the traditional lands (alice springs for instance) deciding that they are actually of that tribe as well.

If you are aboriginal descent you can do whatever you want and do not require access or mining permit.

I can understand open cut mines being an issue for the environment, especially with all the chemical mess they create.

Recreational prospectors should be allowed to access what ia available on aboriginal reserves as long as they fill in their holes and leave only their footprints. Prospectors are not doing any harm and are low impact.

These laws have allowed them to claim what looks like 3/4 of the state.

I am not a lawyer but i think prospecting will become tougher in WA as we are forced to jump through more beaureaucratic hoops.

Especially when reserves change from reserve to native title.
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Goldbait on Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:52 pm

I think all australians should be able to access our own land without needing a permit. Soon we will need a permit to breath.
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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  Birdman on Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:17 pm

the High Court found native title is a bundle of rights and can be partially extinguished. The creation of a reserve, for example, extinguishes any right to control access to, and use of, the reserved lands but may leave other rights in the native title bundle intact, such as the right to access land or to conduct ceremonies.

The above is a quote I found on the native tribuneral website. On many maps it states that permission "may" be necessary to travel through aboriginal lands and communities.

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  everhopeful on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:35 pm

I live in an area whereby the so called (civilized) white settlers had aboriginals working on their(?) land..They kindly(?) supplied the natives with supplies....one of which was ground glass which was mixed up in the sugar... needless to say they wiped out a whole a number of tribes in the district and now there is not one descendant of the original landowners in the district

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  thelion on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:56 pm

Your best bet is to check the law of the state or Territory you are in, and remember this, in some instances you can have all your posessions seized and forfitted, and it will be the Federal Police that will do it.

In the Northern Territory Under NO circumstances take any alcohol, Pornography and by the way that can mean PEOPLE magazine or a single can of beer and the like onto Aboriginal land UNLESS you are just passing through and do not leave the gazetted road.

If in doubt go to the relevant land council find out what they will allow, suprisingly they may just allow you access, with provisos dont go here dont go there, as for those who have this idea that they can just enter, they can just as easily arrange for your arrest and as I said confiscation of your property!

In the not to distant future I will be posting the new Laws for the NT and I will also endevour to give a sumation of the old laws. One should note though it was an Offence last year to fossick for gold in the Northern Territory, according to a close friend who was the registrar of the mining Wardens Court, it no longer is, and the law was introduced by Labor, the previous laws were Liberal and were written specifically for the Mining Industry, like Zapopan and Rio Tinto and also for pastoralists! In other words no access!

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  everhopeful on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:13 pm

What are you on about..I am talking about a time when the landowners made the laws

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Re: Detecting on aboriginal land.

Post  AnnieL on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:50 pm

A bit "off topic" but I have sought a permit to cross aboriginal reserves as part of a trip I am doing on The Longest Shortcut' (Outback Way) from Winton Qld diagonally to Laverton WA. One of the requirements at Docker River from memory was no unleaded fuel - you must have Opal unleaded fuel which has no 'smell' so it cannot be used for sniffing petrol. I have a diesel 4WD so it is not such a problem but will have to make sure my generator fuel container is empty by then or swap over to Opal.

The permits are for 3 days only and that is simply to transverse the reserve. I did notice the form itself did have one of the request options for gold fossicking but didn't pay much attention to it at the time due to travel commitments.
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