Dredging Laws in Qld

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Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Staffwild on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:03 am

Hi All,
We are new to all of this and have managed to pick up a dredge, what are the laws regarding dredging a creek or river looking for gold.... I have searched high and low for info online but it is vague or relates to huge dredging operations.........
We are in the Brisbane area so Qld laws would be handy...

Thanks in advance

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  artrix on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:36 am

totally Illegal Im afraid

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:23 pm

The guy who sold it to ya must be jumpin !! ya should have done some homework first!! Shocked Illegal in all states except with a special permit -- i dont know anyone who has a permit these days

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:03 pm

From my understanding it is generally not permitted in Qld, but can be carried out only on a mining claim. As i read the legislation, one must already have a mining claim and next when filling in the EPA paperwork check the box for eductor dredging 2.5 inch or smaller and wait to see if its' approved. Either way the dredge needs to be out of the creek or river so that the sediments have a chance so settle before the excess water flows back the the river or creek. Although this requirement may have changed. Anyone caught using a dredge without going through the correct process shold be jailed. Uncontrolled derdging can be extremely destructive and in the hands of a novice is guaranteed to be. My father and his mates opperated a dredge in the 1970's and it took them quite a while to get used to it and start getting good gold and a long time so that they werent making a mess. I wish there was a special licence we could get and a special permit area so that anyone so inclined could do this for fun or proffit. Oh thats right, mining permit and mining claims. Im off before i say something really really stupid. Have fun but pack that dredge away.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:31 pm

If I was going to say one more thing it would be that the Qld Mines Dept should hang their heads in shame in that we fossickers are NOT allowed to even use a sluice. They sould be truely ashamed.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:37 pm

Axeman wrote:If I was going to say one more thing it would be that the Qld Mines Dept should hang their heads in shame in that we fossickers are NOT allowed to even use a sluice. They sould be truely ashamed.

What's wrong with using a sluice? I'd have thought they'd be used in Queensland just like they're used in other states.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:49 pm

Nope there not allowed here, and you can use hand tools only. I can't even take out my 6foot slide hammer to break open a crevice. No machines of any kind, no hi-bankers, no pumps, no complex tools or sluices and no fun. Top that of with no decent fossicking areas in she southeast of the state and we are right here at nothing. Welcome to the police state, I mean sunshine state. It makes me wonder if they treat fossickers this way simply because they can and they hate us all, because if they treated mining companies this way they would end up in court defending/explaining their actions.

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Thank you

Post  Staffwild on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:46 pm

Hi Axeman,
Thank you for the information, seems we have alot more to learn. Do you know where we can find clear laws on prospecting in Qld?? I had no idea a sluice was not allowed, guess I pack that away as well, trip to W.A is looking more promising!
Kaz

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:16 pm

I recently purchased a book about gold fossicking in Queensland which was authored by Barry Neville, a now retired Qld mines dept staffer ( who by the way was one of the people responsible for the silly rules we now have here ) where he clearly states exactly what we can do (swett stuff all ) and what we can't do ( fun things ). My personal feelings on this matter aside, his book is excellent. The information contained therein is very concise and well researched and his maps leave the old hit and miss maps of gold and ghosts for dead. More importantly there is a very informative section towards the back which will let everyone know what is and is not acceptable behavior here in Qld. Whilst I have known this information for some time, I bought 3 coppies of this book to give to my god children who are showing interest in fossicking ( finally ). Anyway have a look in gold gem and treasure or go to www.araciapress.com.au and have a look for yourselves, for novices in this field it could prove to be invaluable. I my opinion it was $35 well spent.

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QLD fossicking legislation

Post  Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:23 pm


http://mines.industry.qld.gov.au/mining/guide-fossicking-legislation.htm

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FossickingA94.pdf


Last edited by Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Rustydog on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:29 pm

well after reading the joke rules for prospecting in queensland i can say my hard earned money will not be going there to fossick
that is just sad sad sad Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:30 pm




Last edited by Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:23 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:31 pm

Good point . It is free on the web but he had acess to all that info and more to research his book. Almost seems wrong doesn't it? Public servants using their positions or their ( our ) work time to research a book which they will use as a retirement fund. I must be carefull i'm turning back into a union rep. I'll go back under my rock now.

P.S. I will add this.
We all know or have heard about , and I personally know several people who go fossicking in places they shouldn't go, or don't have licences, or use equipment that they shouldn't use and they don't care. They are criminals! We responsible opperators must not let them continue to do what they do because the response from ( brainless ) public servants is almost invariably the same. More restrictions, more rules and more opression. I can understand the spirit in which these criminals act. It's the Ned Kelley syndrome. Acting like criminals and feeling that the have the right to do so simply because of excessivly harsh regulations or heavy handed officials. This is basis of anarchy and we don't need that. These people are making our lives harder because of their own selfishness. They are not your mates, they are not your friends and they aren't mine either. Report them and do yourselves and everyone else a favor and maybee, just maybee we will still have a hobby in ten or twenty years. ok now I'm going.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:22 pm

Hmmm. You might be overreacting as I cannot find any mention of sluicing under QLD requiremtns. 'Sluicing' is not considered to be using a machine under definition of existing laws in the other states. It is EXPRESSLY ALLOWED under the definition of the acts. Re Sluicing: You are essentially using hand tools like shovels to shift the soil (which is allowed, even under Queensland laws). The purpose of the sluice in these instances is for the purpose of "classifying" and is considered to be within the range of tools, uses and definitions that meet the requirements needed within the category of the "hobbyist prospector/fossicker".

Now a dredge is very similar in design to a sluice (and even uses the riffled section to classify the material being shifted) but would not be permitted under the terms because it uses mechanical means (ie suction) to shift the material. This classifies dredging as mining rather than hobby-related fossicking.

On reading the QLD fossicking guide (as kindly posted above), I see no mention of any exclusion for sluicing. In fact the rules are essentially very similar to the rules here in NSW for fossicking in State Forests.

QLD: "Hand tools are defined as picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers, electronic detectors and other like tools (as specified by Regulation). No machinery is permitted." - This is the same expectation we have in NSW (under the Mining Act, (NSW) 1992 although I have a copy of a letter lying about here that also states for clarification that Sluicing is allowed under these same conditional activities because it is NOT considered to be machinery that "digs". Any rules made by councils are also subordinate to the aforementioned Act in their legislative scope.

The Water Management Regulation of 2004 also "exempts fossickers from using /requiring a Water Access Licence or a Work Pump etc or Use Approval.

Unless the QLD laws prohibit a person from using a water pump, I would reasonably assume that sluicing should not be restricted within the course of the hobby - partly because thousands of people use sluices in QLD and have continued to do so since the 1800s. This includes both River Sluice and also "High-Banker" type two-tiered sluices. It would NOT include dredging as that method is considered to be "Mining" rather than fossicking.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:30 pm

Just found this... uses of Sluices may find this to be extremely helpful in their translation of current fossicking regulations:

I have a letter here dated July 10, 1998 from A W Ramsland (for Director General) at Mineral Resources (NSW Department of Mineral Resources) which is essentially an extract from a letter which the Minister for Mineral Resources (the Hon Bob Martin) forwarded on June 17, 1996 to an enquirer about the use of equipment for fossicking. The language was based upon advice received from the Departments Mines Inspection Branch.


"The regulations specify what a person must not,in the course of fossicking, use any explosives or power operated equipment. If a fossicker uses a hand feed sluice box, capable of being lifted by a single person, which is not located in a stream and only water and not gravel is pumped to it then my Department would consider such activity as complying with the spirit and intention of the regulations."


Since the Queesnland regulations are much the same, I'd be very surprised if the same rules and acceptance does not apply.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:01 pm

Hi Marco,

Any rules made by councils are also subordinate to the aforementioned Act in their legislative scope.

The above quote from your post is wrong.

Unfortately, I have a copy of a letter from the NSW Minister that states " The Minister advises that regional council have authoirty to issue guides and/or restrictions to fossickers who may enter on land under their control. ......The Minister states that it is within the Council's power to place any condition on the fossicker's right of entry."

This letter is in respect of fossicking at Nundle and the battle the alluvial guys had with Tamworth Council in 2007 about the use of pumps to transfer water to highbankers/banjo's.

At Nundle the Council prohibits the use of water pumps for sluicing. Water can only be removed from the river manually.

Cheers
Mrs Fly



Last edited by Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistake)

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Goldbait on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:08 pm

my understanding is that sluices are allowed, dredges are not.


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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:30 pm


Sorry Fly, I've spent a lot of time dealing with the issues at Nundle. Partly because the signs were not erected by Council Members but but an individual without lawful representation in the Nundle District. Tamworth Regional Council operates under the Guidelines of Federal and State Law and in unable to create its own rules on this matter. And the sign you showed is one that was taken down as it was placed there by an individual not involved with council.

I have ANOTHER letter here from Tamworth Council (by Stephen Bartlett, Director Corporate & Governance) dated July 30, 2007 which was issued in direct response to complaints by prospectors and inquiries in relation to the use of Sluices in the Nundle District. It states on the second last and last paragraphs the following:

"Simply stated, whatever activities are permitted under the Mining Act (NSW) 1992 in relation to fossicking for alluvial gold at Nundle are permitted by the Council."

Translation: The Tamworth Council (for Nundle) allows whatever activities are permitted under the Mining Act. This includes sluicing with a motor (water pump).

This is directly after the line " In any event, to the extent that there may be any inconsistency, the guidelines [NSW Department of Mineral Resources] are subordinate to Mineral Act (NSW) 1992 and regulations in force"

The reference to this document is SMB SF 1864

So, as you can see, any demands banning the use of Sluices at Nundle (powered or otherwise) are both unlawful and unenforceable. The people pushing to remove sluices are (1) the owner of the Caravan Park who wants no noise pollution, and (2) from a certain individual who owns the property to the north of Nundle (at the Bowling Alley) whom I have been informed recently has been charged under Environmental laws for allowing Dredging on his property and the Crown Land adjacent. This is the same man who has erected signs without council permission, who was kicked out of the Information Center where he volunteered, and who recently was accused of impersonating State Forest Ranger for the purpose of removing fossickers from the Nundle State Forest in person and by force (manually placing his hands on their person and guiding them from the Forest).

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Guest on Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:58 pm

and this persons ass still points to the ground??????? Cool

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Dredging laws

Post  Staffwild on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:53 pm

Thanks for the extra information, except it sorta confused me more lol (shows how blonde I can be).... Sluices are allowed in Qld?? or not!

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Axeman on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:03 pm

Mines dept staffer said no, many on here say yes. You need to make up your own mind. It's too confusing for me.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Axeman might still be right about QLD. My suggestions were drawing attention to how the law is interpreted here and how this ought to be universal. I can only speak for NSW and even then, confusion has arisen in the past. But it's amazing how many people in NSW mistakenly think sluicing isn't allowed when it most certainly is. I'd suggest you keep digging (for information) or contact a QLD based prospecting supply store as I'm sure they'd know. Worst case scenario, try to get something in writing from the QLD Mines Department. Let us know what you find out.

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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Staffwild on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:26 pm

Will do, Many thanks for the replies!!

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Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  Fly_Dirt on Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:42 pm

Hi Marco,

I also have a copy of the whole series of 2007 correspondence from the various government authorities in relation to the Nundle debate, so I was very surprised by the contents of your post.

I rang the Council myself today.

Mr Bartlett has now left the council, and no-one in the office could clarify the position of the use of water pumps. I was then transferred to the Tourist Info Centre to speak to the man who overseas fossicking and after reading aloud to me the contents of the Fossicking in NSW pamphlet http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/363544/A-Guide-to-Fossicking-in-New-South-Wales.PDF

He said: "Nope, can't see anything in here in relation to water pumps! "

A lot of people were under the same impression about Nundle as me.

So many apologies and thanks for the updated info.

Cheers
Mrs Fly




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Re: Dredging Laws in Qld

Post  nero_design on Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:16 am



Thank you for updating on the subject - as even I was beginning to wonder if perhaps times had changed and new laws had taken over the old... which of course is what invariably happens as time passes. The tourist information center has often actively discouraged the use of pumps as well although I note that the Information Center is also staffed by volunteers from the townsfolk who live at Nundle.

Thank you again Mrs Fly for the update. I wonder if the town will be any more receptive to those people who turn up there in future with a water pump?

In relation to this thread on Queensland sluicing restrictions... does anyone have anything more concrete on whether pumps are permitted there or not? Some members seem to think that this is the case.


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