Cheap sinewave power

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Cheap sinewave power

Post  xenon on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:54 pm

Hey all,

Hoping someone can answer a question I have regarding charging your detrector batteries whilst out in the bush using a normal generator.
I realise that charging your batteries using a normal NON-sinewave generator can damage the battery but was wondering whether you would get true sinewave power through one of those inverters if it is plugged into the generator. I noticed that these inverters can be bought from places like Dick Smith and Jaycar for about $80.
Only reason why I am asking is because the Honda sinewave generators costs anywhere between $1.5k upwards. So, if I bought a normal Handa generator (for about $200-$300), plus an $80 inverter then would I not get the same effect as a $1.5k sinewave generator but for a quarter of the price?
I am not clued up enough with electronics to know the answer to this and no amount of google research seems to be giving me the answer.
Thanks
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  gcause on Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Hi Xenon,

Depends what you want to do and how much power you want to put through the generator.

Whatever you do you want to get a Pure Sinewave inverter as part of the package.

Most generators these days should have this built in as standard and $1.5K is a bit steep for a decent generator these days.

You can get an AEG 3.5Kv for $899 at Bunnings, they use these on work sites, I know cause thats what is sitting under my house in case the power goes out.

You can run a house on that thing.

I have tried other generators but found that if I wanted something I can take anywhere and it will start first go then you can go past an AEG. The only exception to that is if you leave them sit for too long with out turning them over and then it will take a little while to get them started again but once they go they just keep on keeping on.

If you arent looking for that much power then go to Jaycar and have a chat to them about it as they have a lot of portable power solutions and will be able to give you the best advice:

http://www.jaycar.com.au

Hope this helps. Very Happy

Regards,

Grant
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Narrawa on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:39 am

I realise that charging your batteries using a normal NON-sinewave generator can damage the battery
I think you may find that even the old generators still produced a sine wave, its just not very stable when compared to the inverter models. Meaning the output voltage can go up and down as the revs go up and down. However many older/none inverter style generators are still doing the job for many folks with no hassles.
Unlike my old Yamaha EF600 god rest its soul, iv just retired the old girl (still runs tho.....after i lay in the boot) and replaced it with a Honda EU20i......bliss!!!

Also if its selling for $80 at DSE you best be checking to see if its a pure sine wave and not a modified sine wave...both will do the job... but one is pure sine wave the other is not..???? Wink scratch

To get that clean power....connect the 12v lead from your generator to a 12v battery (your car battery or an auxiliary battery) now connect your inverter to the battery and charge your gear. You now have clean power if using the pure sine wave inverter connected to a battery charging off your older generator.


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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:09 am

To get that clean power....connect the 12v lead from your generator to a 12v battery (your car battery or an auxiliary battery) now connect your inverter to the battery and charge your gear. You now have clean power if using the pure sine wave inverter connected to a battery charging off your older generator



NOT before checking the output of the 12v side of the Gen set !! some are not stable and can push too much amps into the Battery!! Shocked

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:29 am

Not all genny's have a 12 volt charging system? The inverter runs off a battery, the genny runs a battery charger, which keeps the battery charged so you can use the clean 240 volt side of your inverter!
Yep the EU20I Honda is a great little generator, ran one for years when our solar panels couldn't keep up in winter.... and summer? Kids! Sad Smile Very Happy

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Re:Cheap sinewave power.

Post  sandy2010 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:36 pm

Good suggestion "someday".......................
Also, a word of caution for anyone using their genny to charge a flat battery(direct).....I was told do not use it on deep cycle batteries.....my genny pumps out 8 amps from the 12 volt outlet, and deep cycle batteries can get severe indigestion when given a fast charge..........check it out.
Cheers.

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:54 pm

I ran a 40 amp battery charger to charge our deep cycle house battery's "Was totally necessary" Thou are battery's were never dead flat, just not enough zaz for the inverter to turn on!
Some people don't like the newer inverter generators because they can be hard to start when run out of fuel, the trick is to not rip the starter cord like a gorilla? all you need to be doing is priming the system Just casually pull the motor over and before you know it, it's running! Very Happy

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Narrawa on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:51 pm

NOT before checking the output of the 12v side of the Gen set !! some are not stable and can push too much amps into the Battery!! Shocked
How much is to much Amps?? Wink
my genny pumps out 8 amps from the 12 volt outlet, and deep cycle batteries can get severe indigestion when given a fast charge..........check it out.
Most WET, GEL, AMG deep cycle batteries can handle a little more than 8Amps when charging.
Projecta put out chargers capable of 50Amps for use with all deep cycle batteries. Most smart chargers have settings for the different battery types, and can be left on permanently.

Not all genny's have a 12 volt charging system?
Than run a 240v charger off the 240v side of the geny.

Some people don't like the newer inverter generators because they can be hard to start when run out of fuel.....
Laughing Laughing Laughing

When storing your geny for long periods in time its best to drain the bowl so the fuel does not gum up the jet...The most problematic reason for service i was told was due to this very thing....leaving today's crappy fuel in it where the fuel part evaporates leaving some of the additives that turn to gel/gum. This causes starting problems as you could imagine be it inverter geny or none inverter...both motors work on the same principle.
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:19 pm

When yo lift the fuel cap and it smells worst than a fart, the fuel is off "rat sh!t" Hard call how to make it better? Best chance is to start your motor every month, or 2 if it's a 2 stoke Don't let it run out of fuel, the only lube is the fuel, no fuel no lube. Honestly there's pro's and con's to all the above, the best pro is to start your motor once a month and change the oil every 50 hours, manufacturers will say every 20 hours, thats a tad over the top!
It's a bit hard to change the oil on a 2 stroke engine ! so don't let it run out of fuel and don't let it run out of fuel?????and start it frequently!

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:04 am

Narrawa I had my blinkers on again. Bad fuel is the biggest reason for motors going down the tip , a blocked main jet from gummy fuel is 99% of the problem!
So easily fixed! Very Happy

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  aufinda on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:14 am

I'm not sure what detector you have, but, if available, the best option is to get a 12v charging adaptor and forget about the 240V.
I don't recall ever charging my ML GPX batteries on anything but 12v DC. Smile

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:08 am

and whatever you do never make 2 stroke with fuel which ethanol has been added !! unless you are goin to use it all in one go! never store it as ethanol absorbs water from the moment it is in contact with air .

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  reg on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:40 pm

someday wrote:When yo lift the fuel cap and it smells worst than a fart, the fuel is off "rat sh!t" Hard call how to make it better? Best chance is to start your motor every month, or 2 if it's a 2 stoke Don't let it run out of fuel, the only lube is the fuel, no fuel no lube. Honestly there's pro's and con's to all the above, the best pro is to start your motor once a month and change the oil every 50 hours, manufacturers will say every 20 hours, thats a tad over the top!
It's a bit hard to change the oil on a 2 stroke engine ! so don't let it run out of fuel and don't let it run out of fuel?????and start it frequently!

i use a product called STA-BIL it is in a 236ml bottle and treats 76litres of fuel, also contains a water remover,use in petrol,petrol/oil mix and ethanol blends,it will keep fuel fresh for 12 months.i buy it from supa cheap.

cheers...reg
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:56 pm

Bought a bunnings kipor .7kva genny yesterday cause my other invertor genny died (don't lend to friends who let oil get low and return it stuffed is the moral) and paid $399, it has a sinewave invertor and a 1.55 litre tank, out camping at the moment trying to catch fish. getting 7 hrs of a tank, running laptop, fridge and other goodies fine. Was suprised it is so quiet on the smart throttle feature it has and is half the size of the 1kva one I had. I have a solar panel and deep cycle here but thought I would thrash i a bit to test it out and suprised really that they are so low in price at the moment.

(no links for noobs so put bunnings dotcomdotau then)/products_product_kipor-7kva-4-stroke-generator_5471.aspx

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  xenon on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Cheers Dez, will check it out
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  gcause on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:39 pm

Dez wrote:Bought a bunnings kipor .7kva genny yesterday cause my other invertor genny died (don't lend to friends who let oil get low and return it stuffed is the moral) and paid $399, it has a sinewave invertor and a 1.55 litre tank, out camping at the moment trying to catch fish. getting 7 hrs of a tank, running laptop, fridge and other goodies fine. Was suprised it is so quiet on the smart throttle feature it has and is half the size of the 1kva one I had. I have a solar panel and deep cycle here but thought I would thrash i a bit to test it out and suprised really that they are so low in price at the moment.

(no links for noobs so put bunnings dotcomdotau then)/products_product_kipor-7kva-4-stroke-generator_5471.aspx

I bought a 3.3Kva Kipor just after the Qld floods for my brothers rural property, at the time he didnt have electricity on and was depending upon having a reliable generator:

http://www.bunnings.com.au//products_product_33kva-75hp-4-stroke-kipor-open-frame-petrol-generator_2026.aspx

It was a crap. It was also really heavy, probably a three man lift, but it was just me and him at the time.

It wouldnt start out of the box no matter what we tried. Took it back to bunnings in Brisbane and they couldnt get it to start either.

So we traded it for a new one at bunnings and got an AEG instead and it works great:

http://www.bunnings.com.au//products_product_aeg-2400w-4-stroke-generator-agn2400b_1083.aspx

I was so impressed with it I went out and bought a bigger one for myself:

http://www.bunnings.com.au//products_product_3800w-aeg-4-stroke-generator-agn3800b_1084.aspx

With constant use it starts first go everytime, can highly recommend them. The only time it hasnt started first time was when I let it sit for too long (about a month) but it didnt take long to get it going, just needed the fuel to get to it.

Only down side is it is not as portable as that one you have though.

The AEG one is lighter than the Kipor one we bought only a two man lift but the wheels and handle make it great for moving it about so weight hasnt been an issue.
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:53 pm

So...

Last night the new genny struggled and today it ran for 5 mins and died, nothing would get it started again! I rang bunnings and after having a bit of headache with the floor staff the complex manager rang me and after hearing I was camping and just did a big shop up yesterday (no fridge) he offered me the next model up and explained that the .7kva was a p line model (promotional model) and that they only had 10 in store and had 3 returned. Within half an hour they dropped the new one off to me 20 k's outta town! So while i am a bit peeved it only lasted a week, i am pretty chuffed that he took the time and made amends, he says that these 1kva models are different and he hasn't had a return yet and reckons they are almost bullet proof (we will see) but overall, I am pleased they have customer service, to drop it off outta town on a dirt track by the river was exceptional in my view! he even rang a few hours later to see if everything was all good. Can't complain with that Cool

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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  xenon on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:54 pm

Yeah, that seems to be the problem with some of the cheaper generators.....The weight. I have got a 300w pure sinewave inverter for the car and that was $280. Enough to charge a battery or "run a blender Very Happy ". Mmmm, smoothies out bush. haha.

Think I might have to just bite the bullet and invest in a Honda pure sinewave. I have seen cheaper ones on ebay but a little apprehensive as no idea what they will work like.

Thanks for all the great help and comments folks.
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Re: Cheap sinewave power

Post  Ironstone on Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:04 pm

hey All,I have a slide-on camper and don't have a generator and don't want one ,ever.,use solar,good 120w panels(there is a difference between cheap and quality panels),modified sinewave inverter 1000w(ebay 4yrs old),now a 200w inside the car for laptop but always charge my detecter(4500) using the 12v plug-in charger that came with my detecter and have no problems at all.can use the 240v charger off the modified sinewave,no problem.when cloudy weather comes,start the car and run it about 800 rpm for 15mins = another couple of days use.(no kids,80 fridge,all led lights,2x100 amp/h batteries+ ute battery and no heavy genny) .had a solar powered geodome house on a hippy community at Uki nsw for about 9 yrs,but thats another story and another lifetime LOL.
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