BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  nero_design on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:02 pm

yowies wrote:Since a New South Wales report on the "Lithgow Pather" confirms that scat and fur found in the area was identified by DNA testing to belong to Leopard/Panther and Mountain Lion/Puma.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been any dna results from NSW that gave a species id of an exotic large felid.
If this test had actually happened then the "case" for exotic cats would be closed and "proven" to a degree...
And..if this test had given a result it would have either been Leopard or Puma..not "and"..since they are different species of large cats. Very Happy
Really interesting post by the way..!!

all the best!!

Mike

And yet we have sightings of Black Panther-like animals as well as Mountain-Lion/Puma-like animals (two very distrincly different looking animals)... right around Australia - as evidenced by comments here. Couple that with the results of testing by the State Government (from memory, they determined there were two different types of Big Cat in Australia and this was in the official report that was leaked to the mainstream press in July 2010). In my opinion, even if someone bagged and shot a Puma here in mainstream Melbourne, you'd still have people claming it was only a one-off event and there couldn't possibly be more. Evidence suggests a number of colonies breeding out there. Hopefully one will get hit by a bus - and we can oogle the pictures from the safety of our home computers.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:13 pm

And dont forget the report of police watching a lioness eating a sheep beside the road outside Broken Hill in about 1985.
The difference in that report and most is..they shot it dead.
No one from the NSW DPI/AG dept every investigated that.
So..to this day..they can argue with a straight face that they have never examined primary evidence like a body.
Which is half true.. Very Happy

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  nero_design on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:48 pm



I hadn't heard of that incident but that sounds quite interesting. Did they say where the lion came from - ie: was it wild or was it an escapee from a private zoo? The reason the recent Federal Govt report went under the radar was because (and they admitted to this) they were concerned that an attack would lead to a decline in tourism and a potential legal situation for the Government department that allowed it to happen.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Did they say where the lion came from - ie: was it wild or was it an escapee from a private zoo?

They guessed(since there was no investigation) that it possibly came from a passing circus.
The animal was shot 17th May 1985 by Tony Holmes a policeman.
If it was truly wild then its pads would be different from the pads of an animal whose whole life was spent in cages/on concrete or dirt floors.
I assume this check/test was never done.

The reason the recent Federal Govt report went under the radar was because (and they admitted to this) they were concerned that an attack would lead to a decline in tourism and a potential legal situation for the Government department that allowed it to happen.

Which is certainly logical.
If you go to australianbigcats.com there is a link down on the left which says "NSW Govt BigCat Reports".
If you click that you will find every report of note that the state govt has ever done on the phenomena. Very Happy

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:45 pm

I remember in the early seventies that Bullens animal world at Wallacia had lost a couple of panthers. Someone cut the keys off the cages and they escaped into the night. Do not remember or should say did not hear of any news articles about them being captured or found again.

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  nero_design on Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:15 pm

explorer wrote:I remember in the early seventies that Bullens animal world at Wallacia had lost a couple of panthers. Someone cut the keys off the cages and they escaped into the night. Do not remember or should say did not hear of any news articles about them being captured or found again.

Bullen's Animal World:
You have a good memory... I remember this too. If you recall, they were going to shut down Bullen's Animal World and euthanise the Big Cats there. When the RSPCA arrived to put the animals to sleep, they were informed that "the animals had died of natural causes and had already been destroyed." Word in the NSW police force was that Bullen's Animal World let their beloved cats go rather than allowed them to be destroyed... and covered the losses by claiming they'd passed away. The cut cage doors were said to be a backup plan (an inside job) to make it look like Greenies or vandals had released the animals ...as this was a time (early 1980s?) when protests against circuses were just beginning in Australia. From memory, there were three escapes by black Panthers before Bullen's were threatened with closure for safety reasons. But it was the treatment of their elephants that cost them in the end. Looked a bit like the baboon filmed crossing a road in Darwin recently - LINK HERE

Private Zoos:
Up until recently, you could buy a Macaque monkey for $18,000 in Sydney but you were required to puchase an exotic pet licence plus a special cage with a concrete base to house it. Parramatta council closed that loophole in 1996 (?). Macaques can rip your ears and nose off when moody. Which is about 28 days in the month. My uncle is a producer/director for film and television and one of those Macques went berserk a the seaplane whilst he was filming an old series called "Butterfly Island", holding up production for an additional day. He still has fangmarks on both legs from the beast. It loathed him because it learned quickly that when my uncle called "Action!", it was forced to perform by its handler. They had to cover the cameras and crew with a black plastic tarp to conceal them but this thing would rip through the plastic and find him in the dark before sinking its fangs into his leg.

Protip: If you want to stir monkeys, visit the Melbourne zoo and take an unltrasonic pet-trainer to the Mandril enclosure. Bring extra underwear. Works a treat from across the moat and also from behind the glass window in the fake cave. Be warned... they will try to kill you regardless of the barriers in place.

Who needs big cats...?
Who needs Big Cats when we have to contend with these in Australia [Caution: Disturbing Image from todays Cairns Post re: Crocodile]LINK HERE


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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Jigalong on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:12 pm

"Couple that with the results of testing by the State Government (from memory, they determined there were two different types of Big Cat in Australia and this was in the official report that was leaked to the mainstream press in July 2010). In my opinion," ......................................................................nero_design

Marco ,

I am glad you said "In my opinion". So far you have not introduced a single fact to support the existence of large cats here. Surely you can procure a copy of this "official report" - I mean it must exist, as you keep referring to it.

Jig.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:20 pm

So far you have not introduced a single fact to support the existence of large cats here

Is a body on the table the sort of "fact" you are after.? Very Happy


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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  gollstar on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:25 pm

Starting a detailed search through old records now and come up with this from Trove nla so far 1924 MELBOURNE, Friday.-A puma escaped from a circus at St. Arnaud. The country-side turned out armed in pursuit, and the animal was shot after two hours search.

# Same story, A puma and jaguar belonging to Perry Brothers' circus escaped when a train was conveying the outfit to Melbourne as it was passing the St. Arnaud cemetery. The side of the cage collapsed and the animals sprang out. The train stopped and the circus employees netted the jaguar which had '. been, stunned bv falling on its head : and replaced it in its cage. Search parties scoured the country side and finally the puma was shot.

# NLA, The Canberra times Friday 23 august 1933, A strange animal believed to be a puma, prowling in the hills near Kingslake West, caused considerable
perturbation amongst the residents. The animal is worrying horses and cattle and women are afraid to go out alone at night.

Im only searching for "puma" at the moment so i reckon theres going to be an absolute trove of info gonna come out of the records.

# Saturday 25 November 1933
Another Mystery Beast. MELBOURNE, November 24. In an endeavour to clear up the mystery of the strange animal, lurking In the rugged bush country near Brlagolong, Glppsland, a party of local residents, armed with rifles, will make a thorough search tomorrow. Unlike the mystery 'lioness' seen at Mount Best, near Toora, this mystery beast has not been caught sight or, but numerous sets of Its tracks have been seen. The footprints which are three and a half feet apart from front to hind paws, were each six Inches long and four Inches wide. After com paring the footprints with those Illus trated in an animal book, a local re sident is of the opinion the beast Is a puma. Recently, a large number of sheep were found dead in peculiar circumstances on various properties In the district. The only mark of vio lence were two holes punctured In the sheeps' throats from which blood ap peared to have been sucked. .The whole district is alarmed.

# continues from above story, MAY BE A PUMA In Briagolong District BUT MAY BE A DOG. SEARCH PARTY OUT. Last Thursday our Briagolong cor respondent related that what was sup posed to be a strange wild animal was alarming res:dents of the district. Armed with heavy rifles a party of Briagolong district residents made a thorough search yesterday through rugged bush country five miles from Briagolong, for the mysterious animal, which has been alarming resilents for some time. Led by Mr. Rod. Estoppey, the for est ranger of the district, the party included First-Constable Wright and the secretary of the Briagolong rifle club (MIr. H. Landy) and about ten others. The party assembled at the Delta bridge on the George's Creek road over Freestone Creek, at 10 a.m. W'ith a large pack of dogs they made through the rugged bush country to a point five miles north-west of Briagolong, from which numerous sets of the animal's tracks have been traced. Mr. Estoppey, who examined the tracks near this place last Sunday, said that the footprints, which were three and a half feet apart, were each six inches long and four inches wide. They resembled the footprints of a cat, each paw mark having the im print of four front toes with a smaller toe-mark at the side. After comparing the footprints w:th those illustrated in an animal book. Mr. Estoppey is of the opinion that the beast is a puma. He said that Mr. H. Bedggood, of George's Creek, was near the same place recently with two cattle dcgs. The dogs chased a rabbit into some thick scrub, but emerged a few minutes later with hair bristling. They bolted home terrified. Recently, he added a large number of sheep had been found dead in peculler circumstances on various properties in the district. The only mark of violence were two holes punctured in the sheep's throats, from which the blood appeared to have been sucked. The whole district was alarmed, said Mr. Estoppey, and the party hoped to secure either the animal or some definite evidence of its identity in the course of the search:



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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  nero_design on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:53 pm





http://www.mysteriousaustralia.com/nsw_gov_report.html


Report on information available on the reported large black cat in the Blue Mountains.
Prepared by: Bill Atkinson, Agricultural Protection Officer. NSW Agriculture


________________________________________________________

The information collected was classified to estimate the relative veracity of the information. Sightings were weighted and grouped according to criteria that may affect validity. The higher the percentage score obtained the greater the credibility given to the observation. (6)

The credibility score is expressed as a percentage. A 100% score means that more than one person saw the animal at the sighting, the sighting was in broad daylight, for greater than five seconds and at a distance of less than 100 metres. The persons making the sighting are considered to have good bush skills and had an uninterrupted view of the animal and the recollection of the sighting was recorded less than one year after the sighting. A summary of these scores is attached A number of people claim to have seen the animals on more than one occasion.

Two of the recent sightings seared 100% and three scored 80%.

The two 100% sightings are at the northern extremity of the Blue Mountains area being at Turill and Mudgee and are only approximately 50 Km apart. A review of the local Mudgee newspaper has reported a number of large cat sightings during the last 25 years (one person claims to have seen four large cats, up to 700mm high, at one time).The three 80% scores would have scored 100% if those making the sightings had known bush skills.

Meeting by group of experts to discuss evidence

A group of people met on 7 August 2003 to discuss the evidence available. The group included:

Dr Sandy Ingleby Collection Manager, Australian Museum
Mr Will Meikle, Director of Life Sciences, Taronga Zoo
Mr David Pepper-Edwards; Divisional Manager, Taronga Zoo
Ms Louise Ginman, Unit Supervisor, Taronga Park Zoo
Kim de Govrik Area Manager NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service
Graeme Eggleston, Program Manager, NSW Agriculture.
Bill Atkinson, Agricultural Protection Officer, NSW Agriculture


The maps of sightings and other activity (attached) indicate that the animal(s) are mainly reported in the "Blue Mountains. This was supported by zoo staff ­who said that historically, sightings in Eastern Australia seem to occur in old gold mining areas and that anecdotal evidence suggests pumas (Felis " concolor) were brought to Australia by American gold miners in the 1850's. These animals may have subsequently escaped or were released causing numerous sightings over many years- in these areas.

David Pepper-Edwards informed the group of an article ... stating that Deakin University had conducted a study into strange events in the Grampian Mountains in Victoria and had concluded that puma (Felis concolor) were free ranging in the Grampians. NSW Agriculture library staff is trying to locate information on this paper.

_________________________________________________________________

CHARLES STURT UNIVERSITY

Dr. J.J Bauer
Eric Davies,
Program Leader, Vertebrate Pests, Division of Animal Industries,
37 Carrington Avenue, DUBBO NSW. 2830, 30/6/99
Fax: 0206881 1295

Panorama Avenue'
Bathurst NSW 2795 Australia
Telephone 02 6338 4386 F.acsimile 02 6338 4078

Re: NSW Agriculture. July, 1999
Black Panther Sightings at Richmond, Sydney

"Difficult as it seems to accept, the most likely explanation of the evidence listed above is the presence of a large feline predator. In this area, most likely a leopard, less likely a jaguar."



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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:11 pm

Where do you think I picked my avatar from? You guessed it... We have panthers around here. They have been sighted on many occasions. My property backs onto the state forest. I had to slow down one evening while a panther ambled slowly across the road in front of me. Until that happened I wasn't aware of any such thing. It certainly wasn't concerned about me at all. They are magnificent creatures. I even named my tractor after it.


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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  gollstar on Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:32 pm

I would probarly she-it my pants if i actually saw one walking across the road. Im motivated to go to this spot tommorrow where i was told one was seen it was apparantly sleeping in a tree hollow during the day when the prospector was walking towards it unknowing until it got up and bolted and hes sure it was the size of a labrador but was not a dog in any way shape or form as this guy has always had dogs as pets and it was pretty close by maybe 50 metres and hes adament it was a cat of sorts.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Jigalong on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:01 pm

Thanks Marco,
It is interesting to note the conclusion in the report.
Jig.

"Conclusion
Nothing found in this review conclusively proves the presence of free ranging - exotic large cats in NSW, but this cannot be discounted and seems more likely than not on available evidence."
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  gollstar on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:28 pm

Thats it im going to catch it hook or by crook im going to go buy a can of snappy toms and rig up a claymore to it youll see ill be on today tonight for sure hopefully in one piece

ps hold your water i dont actually have a claymore so settle down.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  maka on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:40 pm

Must have been tourists. 3 Aussie's would have mowed a cat down no matter what its size was.
They could have named it speedbump..
Bull bar, roo bar, cat bar.. affraid
Seriously would you run down an yowie/ bigfoot/ Yeti? For a million dollars?
I doubt i would... But a hairy hippie i might.....
Some feral cats stand above 1m tall and they have been DNA tested as normal cats, not panthers..
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  chopppacalamari on Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:34 am

Thanks Marco,

I always love these kinds of threads.

Dicko..
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  granite2 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:44 am

It always amazes me how many people actually believe this sort of stuff. When queried they always throw up the same answers that never hold water. I have never believed in these sort of animals roaming around Australia and I have spent a lifetime roaming the country myself. Smile

I was on the land from a teenager and since then have worked in a variety of jobs both in the country and country towns, and have travelled a great deal in very remote country. In place as heavily settled as Victoria a big cat would never stand a chance without being shot, except maybe in the high country. But most so called sightings come from areas of country Vic that are heavily settled. No

It makes good fun to scare folks with these tales but the chance of a big cat being out there rates about the same as a drop bear dropping in some unsuspecting female german tourists. affraid
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:44 pm

it always amazes me how many people actually believe this sort of stuff.

Why..?
Perhaps they know something you dont.
That is possible you know. Very Happy

When queried they always throw up the same answers that never hold water.

Which "answers" are they..
Were they the govt reports that were pro cats...that dont hold water in your "Opinion".
Were they the observations of farmers/hunters/police etc that dont hold water in your "Opinion".
Were the opinions of big cat experts from overseas..?that dont hold water in your "Opinion".
Perhaps it was the body on the table shot by police in 1985 that doesnt hold water in your "Opinion".
Yada yada yada

I have never believed in these sort of animals roaming around Australia and I have spent a lifetime roaming the country myself.

Its not really about "belief"..but if that mkes you happy..fair enough.
And your confusing the possible reality of something..and whether you have experienced it (and your esteemed opinion)..as the definiton of reality.
Its a common mistake in thinking and logic. Very Happy

In place as heavily settled as Victoria a big cat would never stand a chance without being shot,

Good point..sort of..not all observers have a gun/are ready etc etc etc.

It makes good fun to scare folks with these tales but the chance of a big cat being out there rates about the same as a drop bear dropping in some unsuspecting female german tourists.

Based on your limited knowledge of the subject matter...
Fair enough..whatever makes you feel sane and happy. Very Happy
Peace

Mike

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  maka on Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:08 pm

Amazing ,, What about this bigfoot caught on tape???
http://youtu.be/NpXDxBT3evo
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:54 pm

now that is funny, I love it Razz Razz Razz Razz

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:24 pm

granite2 wrote:It always amazes me how many people actually believe this sort of stuff. When queried they always throw up the same answers that never hold water. I have never believed in these sort of animals roaming around Australia and I have spent a lifetime roaming the country myself. Smile

I was on the land from a teenager and since then have worked in a variety of jobs both in the country and country towns, and have travelled a great deal in very remote country. In place as heavily settled as Victoria a big cat would never stand a chance without being shot, except maybe in the high country. But most so called sightings come from areas of country Vic that are heavily settled. No

It makes good fun to scare folks with these tales but the chance of a big cat being out there rates about the same as a drop bear dropping in some unsuspecting female german tourists. affraid

I am a little bit surprised by a comment like this coming from you, but I guess you have to be there at the time. I haven't seen wild camels myself, but there is enough evidence they exist. Then I haven't seen a wild wombat either. I realize you are older than me but it took me 60 years before I saw my first panther. Maybe I was seeing things? If you tell me they don't exist, well I must have been halucinating. So must my neighbours and my daughter and son in law. Ah well, thats old age for you. Then again my daughter is half my age. ??? I give up

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  xenon on Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:58 pm

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  nero_design on Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:04 pm

I was a little surprised myself because his replies are usually less polarized than this one. But each to their own. There's a hell of a lot more evidence supporting the existence of a number of large predatory cats out there in Australia than there is evidence to support the existence of God. Yet a very high portion of the world's population believe in a God. I guess Granite2 must be an Atheist.

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:08 pm

maka wrote:Amazing ,, What about this bigfoot caught on tape???
http://youtu.be/NpXDxBT3evo
Now thats by far the most compeling evidence big foots exist. Very Happy

I had to slow down one evening while a panther ambled slowly across the road in front of me
, I'm surprised that it just ambled across the road in front of U. I would have though on hearing the car it would have darted into cover as all wild animals do (except stupid roos).
Given the amount of feral dogs and cats that roam the bush, the so called panther be it black or tan would be out numbered and killed by these animals they don't have the luxury of being isolated like on an island.
The average life span is 12 years for these animals, so unless there is a breeding pair and they live on an island (with plenty of food) they would have been wiped out by our feral cats and dogs or thru old age.
If in fact there was a breeding pair the country side would be full of them. As they occupy large territory they would be forced to live closer humans. So as their numbers increased the risk of capture or death would also, so no breeding pairs id say.
There is a good chance these so called sights are in fact feral cats, I've seen a few dead ones one was flung over a fence it would have been at least 1m long (its head was touching the grd one side it tail the other) . Now considering feral cats are hunted with a passion and are very good at avoiding people they do get caught and shot on a regular basis, how is it no panthers/pumas loins whatever get caught and shot. Look at what panther said one just ambled in front of him if they are that cocky and prolific they would have been shot or caught.
These are nothing more than feral cats sightings.

Must have been tourists. 3 Aussie's would have mowed a cat down no matter what its size was.
Sry Maca not tourists as they were all greenies all driving prius.

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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:29 pm

Given the amount of feral dogs and cats that roam the bush, the so called panther be it black or tan would be out numbered and killed by these animals they don't have the luxury of being isolated like on an island.

Obviously..you are clueless how strong/agile and fast large cats are. Very Happy

The average life span is 12 years for these animals, so unless there is a breeding pair and they live on an island (with plenty of food) they would have been wiped out by our feral cats and dogs or thru old age.

Obviously there must be more than a breeding pair.

As they occupy large territory they would be forced to live closer humans.

Err no..the country is big enough to support apex predators..who can remain hidden if they desire..and..their hunting grounds are dependent on food..so..plenty of food..smaller hunting areas.
And..the majority of humans in Australia live in a couple of cities..the majority of reports do not come from those areas.
ergo..if your theory had legs..the reports would be in the opposite direction.


There is a good chance these so called sights are in fact feral cats,

Some feral cats can become large..no feral cats in the world can appear to so many witnesses as being this huge /leave prints the size that they do/chase cattle and scare the %$#@ out of people and on and on..
If they can do this..then show us a body of a feral cat that large. Very Happy


Now considering feral cats are hunted with a passion and are very good at avoiding people they do get caught and shot on a regular basis, how is it no panthers/pumas loins whatever get caught and shot.

1/Did you read the thread?..a lioness was shot outside broken hill in the scrub by police..and they are not the brightest of big cats.
So your question is answered..but I will continue as if there is no body on the table.
2/population size
3/smarter animals
4/Most large cats are "easier" to hunt in Savannah type places like Africa..but jungle/scrub areas and they are really hard.
And animals like puma are only killed because they use trained hunting dogs to tree them.

These are nothing more than feral cats sightings.


Sure they are.. Very Happy



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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  silwane on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:42 pm

Hi all,

It is amazing to see how many people are convinced of this big cat or cats out in the bush. I have spent years out there hunting and seen thousands of feral cats and some are very big next to the humble house cat. I have had many mates who were with me at the time who were also seasoned bushman and they had mistaken size of animals or cats. Only to find after shooting it just how small it was or how much they had over estimated the size. So I don't take 90% of sightings for a grain of salt. As they are quite often town folk or have an untrained eye for sizing up animals in the bush.
I have travelled to many places trying to photograph big cats in their natural environment in India, Asia and Africa. I can honestly say that I haven't seen claw marks like the ones on the tree in the video on this thread anywhere. Tigers will mark particular trees in their known range and scuff it up a bit but I have watched leopards climb trees and pull carcasses up them and there is barely a mark left on the trunk. I found it laughable that the cat in the video knew of the camera traps field of view. So not only has this cat invaded Australia it is now even smarter and elusive than that of its cousins living back home. Because camera traps are what they use world wide to get estimates on low predator numbers living in the jungles where it is almost impossible to track down these cats. One such example where there is a National park in central Thailand where there is thought to be one last male Tiger roaming a cut off part of jungle. This old male has a home range of 60km's and through 1 year of camera trapping and field research his home land range and habbits are now so well known and recorded, that they know where he will next pop up. So how can so many apparent cats live in Australia for so long with no factual evidence being produced? Appart from 1000's of sightings!(Hmm, rings a bell.. I'm sure the big foot is seen as often as our big cats).Anyway, Our forests are nothing on Asian or african jungles in terms of accessability and yet we can't find hair nor hide of these animals. But I'm sure many will disagree and confuse feral cats with actual large cats and understandably so, we are all human and any police officer will tell you how unreliable our recollections of any event are!! Smile
Cheers
Paul
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:57 pm

I have spent years out there hunting and seen thousands of feral cats and some are very big next to the humble house cat.

Fair enough..but you are confusing what you think is in the bush..with what is reality.
Many people have seen these animal which have left prints and kills..
If feral cats can do this..please provide proof that they exist to the sizes reports with corresponding spoor prints etc

I have travelled to many places trying to photograph big cats in their natural environment in India, Asia and Africa. I can honestly say that I haven't seen claw marks like the ones on the tree in the video on this thread anywhere.

Okay..first off..you mentioned try..so its difficult right.?
But anyone can claim they are or have done anything on the net. Very Happy
And I mean no offence by that..you might be a shave pygmy chained to a wall in a castle for all I know.... Very Happy
But..the reality is..when big cat exprts like Johannes Bauer an ecologist was brought in by the NSW govt..he believed the cats were here..as well as Rural lands protection board vet Keith hart who chases leopards with a video camera in africa..so i will side with the experts on this one. Very Happy
And..what native animal makes claw marks on trees.(not sure which video you are looking at)..because NSW ag has a list of herpetologists who did not think lace monitors/koalas did the scratches...so..I will side with them on this as well.

So how can so many apparent cats live in Australia for so long with no factual evidence being produced?

If you count factual evidence..as a body..read the thread..case closed for at least one body.
If you count secondary evidence judged by experts as factual..then your right..we have factual evidence.
If we count trained witnesses observation as "factual" yes..we have that..

and yet we can't find hair nor hide of these animals.


If that was true..yes..its not true..see above


But I'm sure many will disagree and confuse feral cats with actual large cats and understandably so, we are all human and any police officer will tell you how unreliable our recollections of any event are!!


Feral cats do not damage trees/livestock etc and cannot leave large spoor prints..
Its just a mystery..I dont have the answers..I just find it fascinating..
If people think its just feral cats..fine..you just have to ignore alot of evidence and reports..thats the problem.
Its a mystery..I dont have all the answers..no one does..
I understand why some people who are very rigid in their thoughts and beliefs can get upset by weird outliers like this..
Peace..






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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  silwane on Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:42 pm

HI there Yowies,
You ask for proof of feral cats killing? Well the kills you are talking about Im not saying that the feral cats made these nor are they capable.. But I'm just not linking them to Lions or leopards. There are many wild dogs out there to do that, some of which will go on killing spree's for a whole night. Ok, the experts say the carcass didn't bare the trademarks of wild dogs. But who's to say a dog didn't kill it only to have an old boar drag it 100 metres away to devour it leaving nothing but clean bones and a skin looking though it has been tanned. thus leaving no sign of the actaul kill zone to investigate. I have seen this happen many times.
So no I don't claim to be an expert but if a lamen like me can come up with alternative conclusions based upon personal experience I'm sure they can do better or would, had they have more proof which you say they have so much of.. I don't need to make claims or lie of anything I have done in order to prove my point, I am only stating what I have done to let the reader see that I am not just pulling words from my backside.
The part I mentioned about the claw marks in the tree is the youtube clip showing where a woman had an animal strung up in a tree and a camera set up to try and photgraph it. Now I don't mean to knock the video, I would be as excited as the next person to know for real that we have big cats running around the bush. But you say the experts again said it wasn't any animal they know of, maybe they weren't looking at the right animal(humans). Wouldn't be the first time someone tried stir up some exciting news.
So as I have said, sure there maybe the rare occasion of an escapee getting around some where or some one has purchased a cat or cats on the black market only to cut them lose. But big cats living and breeding in our forests? I find it highly unlikly. Also the question of genetics as to whether such a small genepool can sustain on going generations. But I'm going way above my head here.
Anyway thats my 10c worth and the proof you talk of, I would love to see 100% definite pug mark or plaster casts from these cats.
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Re: BIG CAT seen crossing the Sturt Highway - 3 cars stopped for it!

Post  yowies on Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:29 pm

Hi There Silwane

Well the kills you are talking about Im not saying that the feral cats made these nor are they capable..

we agree Very Happy

But I'm just not linking them to Lions or leopards.

Neither am I..I am relying on the reports of the doggers/farmers/hunters who examine the kills..they do not look canid or pig like like.
Which leaves what..?
As far as I am aware..pigs do not have reverse type of papillae on their tongue to scrap flesh perfectly clean and none of the doggers who have seen pig kills have seen this.
If anyone has proof of a pig kill/clean up whatever where the pigs were seen and the kill was clean as a whistle then please post the photos.

I have seen this happen many times.

You have seen perfectly clean kills which look like the body has been carved with a sharp knife and then vacuumed.
Any photos.?
Because no one I have ever met has ever claimed pigs can do this.

So no I don't claim to be an expert but if a lamen like me can come up with alternative conclusions based upon personal experience I'm sure they can do better or would, had they have more proof which you say they have so much of.. I don't need to make claims or lie of anything I have done in order to prove my point, I am only stating what I have done to let the reader see that I am not just pulling words from my backside.

I respect your opinion..but it is not valid in the small % of cases I am talking about..look..here is a quick example.
I will explain it this way..I have a large interest in gold..I have been in many places where gold is found..and I have an opinion on finding gold..
But..I dont know much about finding gold... Embarassed
But I have strong and honest opinions on how to find it.
RE the cat phenomena in OZ..you can have an opinion on it..we all do..but it depends on what you know about it..thats what counts.
What you think is known..and what is known are two completely different things.. Very Happy

Clean kill..NO PIGS in area ever..and claw marks in the rear leg.Place http : // where the ### is..I am a new member and cannot post links Embarassed
####i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/ozestrange/claws2.jpg


The part I mentioned about the claw marks in the tree is the youtube clip showing where a woman had an animal strung up in a tree and a camera set up to try and photgraph it. Now I don't mean to knock the video, I would be as excited as the next person to know for real that we have big cats running around the bush.


Yes..I know the video.She believed the animal pulled the roo from the back..through the tree fork....by chance..
If a dog/pig/goanna etc removed the animal..how come the game camera did not catch them.?

But you say the experts again said it wasn't any animal they know of, maybe they weren't looking at the right animal(humans).


I never tried to explain "away" that incident since I didnt know which one exactly you were talking about.
I was not aware any "experts" had said diddly squat about that incident.. Very Happy
The property is private and semi remote..the animal was set up in the late afternoon..
Taken during the night..
If someone (no one knew it was being placed there) spotted this animal and then spotted the camera..they would then have to turn the camera off..go lift off a rotting roo from the tree..and carry it off..
If that was the explanation(though why anyone would bother has me stuffed) then fine..it meant nothing in the scheme of things.

Wouldn't be the first time someone tried stir up some exciting news.

It wasnt any news..there was a game camera set up...a stinking roo in the fork..the roo was gone and no video.
What news?..its a shite/absurd story.. Very Happy
John patterson print..horses freaked out on the way to the beach at 90mile Victoria and wouldnt cross these prints which went down to the dunes..there were two animals.
#####i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/ozestrange/JohnPatterson.jpg
Melville caves victoria.Normal house cat print is on top
#####i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/ozestrange/melvillecaves2.jpg





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