Tuning your 4500

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  davsgold on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:31 pm

Narrawa wrote:Disconnect your detectors coil lead from the control box, turn detector on, up the gain, up the motion, up the audio to boost(GPX models).

Do an auto tune, whats the detector now trying to tune out.??

Does upping some settings work???? or add to the problem??
Test your skill with the manual tune now. Very Happy Razz


Interesting Narrawa, I've never tried it, if you have what did you notice?

cheers dave
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:16 pm

.....if you have what did you notice?

If i told you .......id have to kill you. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Internally generated noise as well as the detector sounding like it was operating with a coil picking up loads of EMI.
Rx gain =1
...........=8
...........=15
Same thing was noticed with the auto tune using a coil attached regardless of other settings........ lotto numbers.




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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  davsgold on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:36 pm

So are you saying that with no coil attached it still picks up EMI??? if this is the case then maybe we should build a "Faraday Shield" around the control box!!!!!

cheers dave
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:46 pm

davsgold wrote:So are you saying that with no coil attached it still picks up EMI???

cheers dave
Im hoping its just EMI Dave or my 45s full of gremlins. Very Happy

Without knowing exactly how the auto tunes regime works, can we safely say it was designed to tune out interference, using a highly sophisticated bit of programing.?...its hard to dispute that ay? Very Happy Very Happy Razz
What if the auto tune decides that 140 is the best area of operation, and we humans override it, would that not mean the function of auto tune is nothing more than a gimmick.?
Or is our perception of what appears to work better....actually work better.? scratch


Disheartening hey? Very Happy


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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Nightjar on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:29 am

One option we use is to leave the "gain" screen open when swinging.
Once the optimum gain level is set, usually 8/10, we begin swinging. If a faint positive signal is detected we wind the gain up to 15 and test the signal.
The machine is unstable however if the faint signal is now pronounced it usually results in a deep metalic target. Not always gold but we are most times rewarded with gold.

Cheers
Peter
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Flakmagnet on Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:31 pm

NightJar,

How smart that is!

Thanks.
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Nightjar on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:05 am

Hi Narrawa,
Am intrigued why you tune your detector with the coil disconnected?
What are you proving here?
Bit like taking the blades off your lawn mower to see if it still cuts the grass? lol! lol! lol!
Cheers mate,
Peter
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newby

Post  Camd on Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:19 pm

I was told to manual tune and stay between 80 and 100 does this sound right??? it is ment to be beter for detector

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  deutran on Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:02 pm

Hi Camd
Most operators are using their detectors in the range of 45-110.The reason goes back to the old Vlf detectors which used lower frequencies for the large deep gold and higher for the small gold.
After using these new detectors in the field we have settled on these settings.I have talked to many prospectors here in Vic and they all seem to work between these parameters.There are some topics on this forum that delve into this so have a look around.
Steve
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:05 pm

Your funny Nightjar. Laughing Laughing
Re-read the thread again and without booz in your system. Laughing Laughing
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Nightjar on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:21 am

Hey Narrawa,
Have reread your post, I must be missing something, can you explain more about your technique?
BTW drinking only black tea and coffee here for past few months since my ops. Looks like I'll have to change the brand. Smile Smile Smile

Cheers
Peter
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:43 am

Nightjar
Tuning the detector with no coil attached was only to show there is still EMI or internal noise present......its not something i commonly do.

The question is.......Do we benefit any by upping the gain/motion ect ect when we tune.????? scratch

One would think, that with no coil attached there should be zero noise correct???......unfortunately its not the case.

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:42 pm

I found this post very valuable.
I am sure it has change the way some of us think when doing tunning.
Lot of things said are very logical and make lot of sense.

Now i remember being told by Jim Stewart (love listening his stories in Laanecoorie) that tunning in air is ridiculous idea as we detect with coil on the ground or close to the ground.Makes sense.

I detect in Golden Triangle and if i auto tune my detectors always stops over 200.
Well i carry little nugget/shot pallet and once the machine is set up i try to see what kind of response/signal i get from the detector.Considering i am newbie its important for me to know what kind of signal/response i should be paying attention too.As i am getting little bit more experienced i do the tunning manually.

Thanks for a great info. cheers
GoldEN

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  the speciman on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:26 pm

GDAY GUYS AND GALS
detectors have a memory if ya auto tune in the same spots!!!
havin said that emi changes every day hour by hour!!!
i usually auto tune then tweek the rx and stabilizer to gain the most smoothest signal!!
then after that manual tune up or down about six positions till i find the smoothest reading using a test piece in the particullar area !!!!
it takes a bit of time but hey ????
then comes the ground balancing which i think is the most important element in highly minerelized grounds.
JP could help us out here!!
good scratchin
cheers the speciman

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disconnect coil

Post  Digginerup on Tue May 22, 2012 12:55 pm

Hi folks,Interesting stuff on the Tuning,Im kinda new so Im looking for all tips and opinions, I was led to believe that a coil should always be connected to the control box when on? Is that correct? or can I have my machine on to play around in the menus without a coil connected?
Regards.


Last edited by Digginerup on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:54 pm

Digginerup wrote:Hi folks,Interesting stuff on the Tuning,Im kinda new so Im looking for all tips and opinions, I was led to believe that a coil should always be connected to the control box when on? Is that correct? or can I have my machine on to play around in the menus without a coil connected?
Regards.
You can disconnect the coil when in your home for purposes of playing with the menu, but i prefer to just lower the gain and flick the coil RX to cancel. (with mono coil attached)
Disconnecting/reconnecting the coil while the detector is on is not advisable. affraid

Having the coil disconnected while playing with the manual tune is not something i would do either....the TX from what i know will shift slightly....this is evident when you listen to another detector close by while auto tuning. If its not the TX shifting...what causes the other detector to complain.??? scratch

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Bushed-Tracker on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:57 am

What a great and interesting set of threads.

Thanks folks

John
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:23 pm

Nightjar wrote:One option we use is to leave the "gain" screen open when swinging.
Once the optimum gain level is set, usually 8/10, we begin swinging. If a faint positive signal is detected we wind the gain up to 15 and test the signal.
The machine is unstable however if the faint signal is now pronounced it usually results in a deep metalic target. Not always gold but we are most times rewarded with gold.

Cheers
Peter
Here is a similar idea that i use most days.
On the front end cap, set the detector to custom.....mimic your everyday settings except...up the gain to 15 and the stabilizer to say 2-3.
Now set the switch to Deep and again mimic your everyday settings.... now lower the gain to FP and same with the stabilizer.
You now have three detectors all with a different opinion over your iffy target.....it saves having to alter your everyday settings....and you can flick the switch either way on the fly.

I also leave my gain screen handy on my general settings. Very Happy
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Great advice as usual Narrawa,but do I also have to be holding my tounge right while doing all that? Razz Laughing Laughing

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:00 pm

Its a good thing i happened along Gus.....not your tongue mate.. you need to hold your mouth correctly. Razz Laughing
If you see a fellow prospector detecting with his tongue doing all sorts of things....it means one of a few things.
1. He/she is a true windowlicker and nothing you do will remedy the outcome.
2. He/she may have a little Vegemite on their chin...hence the tongue thing.
3. Someone from here told them about prospecting with their tongue in a certain position when in fact they should have said mouth. lol!

Why it just so happens, only today did i see such a thing from a far. I called to the elderly gent to correct his technique but was met with a low tone of mumbles which i took as aggression. scratch
We swapped words from across the paddock for a while till i grew sick of his disputatious nature, and his constant mocking me with his tongue twitching...... so i bitch slapped him. While he was down, i thought it rude not to lay the boot in...so i followed through with that also. As i turned to walk away from the aggressor, a voice could be heard coming from the trees close by, and a young women appeared calling out...are you there pop!?...come on grandad its time for your tic medicine.

She looked at me and i at her ( this is where my charm comes into play ) i said....looks like the old fella must have fallen over love...here, i'll give you a hand to re foot him.

lol!







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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 am

Laughing Laughing Laughing ROFL
Good thing you happened along mate,here I was thinking holding my tounge right was the Key,when it was all in the Mouth Wink
Bugger,so does that mean if I go back to all those hot spots with the right pose,it will be all good?
If that fails,I`ll give the Vegimite a run for sure Razz

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Kunnara on Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:19 am

Hey folks...I know this is an old thread but it is about tuning the 4500...I went out for a swing today and found a small bit but had a real battle getting a real smooth threshold...There are plenty of hot rocks about so tonight I had a look in the manual and it say's that the enhance mode will help with those...What it doesn't tell you is whether or not you need to change any other settings or do you just switch to enhance,ground balance and start detecting??? Any ideas???
Oh,I am using a NF 6" x 8" mono...

Cheers...Kunnara

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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Narrawa on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:50 am

Kunnara, hotrocks give off a signal much like a bit of gold just beneath the surface. Enhance greatly reduces the effects from most hotrock, but it will not make the threshold smother. If anything, switching to Enhance will make the threshold a little more erratic, which by the way, is a normal by product from the use of Enhance. This i because Enhance is far superior on smaller gold than the other timings. Its way more sensitive, and with sensitivity comes some unwanted effects. These effects are offset by the amount of gold Enhance is able to find over the other/older timings.

Set the detector up on FP with the front end cap switch set to Enhance, from there, slowly adjust the other settings to suit both the ground conditions and level of EMI present. FP will find you gold no problems, so don't panic if your not sure where to set all the other settings....FP will not fail you.
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  Tributer on Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:46 am

Hi Kunnara, there are many hot rocks that will always give you a sweet sharp signal when the rock is at a certain depth or size, weathered basalt is the worst in my experience. You can't beat it but you can trying balancing over the hot rock to help maximise the difference between signals on the hot rocks compared to gold. Armed with a small coil i have taught my brain to make out the difference between hot rock signals and metal/gold signals. You wont always get it right so if there is some gold about i check many signals i know are probably hot rocks just in case. Its hard to explain but with practice in hot rock ridden spots you can begin to discern between broad hot rock signals that change depending on what direction you swing over them compared to gold that usually gives a consistent signal regardless of what direction you come at it.

Narrawa, you are right about enhance causing the threshold to waiver. In some locations with a 4500 i have found that sensitive extra on a lower gain gives very good stability and increase in signal response/depth over enhance. When you swap to enhance (ie two many hot rocks/red clay to use sens extra) you immediately notice the threshold get very chatty and the stabilizer has to be wound down
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Re: Tuning your 4500

Post  andrewd on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Hi guys lots of good information on here thanks would anyone have some good settings for a gpx4500 with a coiltek 14" elite mono in wa
Cheers
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Re: Tuning your 4500

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