For NSW prospectors & fossickers

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For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  wazza on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:27 pm

I have spoken to Robert Borsak of the Shooters & Fishers Party, and he would like to know what you need or want done. The S&F party are in a bit of a rocky place at the moment, as the current government joined with the Greens and passed a law stopping some of the funding the party was receiving, and it’s really going to hurt them. So more voters and more funding will help them.
I believe they have some power in government, so they can manage to get thing s done.
What do you guys want?

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Tributer on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:16 pm

Thanks Wazza.

These thing would be good:

a. That prospecting (with hand tools or detectors) is allowed on western lands leases in NSW. (A small licence fee to prospect would be OK)
b. That the Mining Act is ammended to include a provision for small leases to be taken out, and on existing EL,s in certain circumstances. (Although it is in the legislation now you cannot do it unless the minister approves. and he/she has only ever approved them at opal and sapphire fields.
c. Where existing crown land where fossicking is allowed now has a land status change , that fossicking is continued to be allowed.
d. That the mining ACT regs/schedules are ammended to allow you to take more then 35 grams in gold/gems per day that it currently only allows you take.
e. That the right to collect (find and keep) meteorites in NSW is retained.
f. That the Mining ACT retains/strengthens the clause indicating that prospecting/fossicking is allowed on EL's. (not near active mining/work sites of course)
g. That the right to prospect in State Forests, State Parks (E.g Burrendong) and travelling stock routes and Travelling Stock Reserves remain in place or are returned.

Basically i want the next reviews/ammendments to the Crown Lands Act, Mining Act, Forestry Act and NPWS Act(prospecting in SCA'S only) to enshrine/strengthen the right to prospect for minerals/gems/rocks/gold and to provide opportunities to prospect in areas where it has been traditionally done.

There must be heaps more. Some of the small propecting lease arrangement available in WA legislation may be good to have in the ACT.

If a miners right (license) for NSW prospectors would help get the above through i would not disagree with it.

In the above i respect the fact that the protection of important flora and fauna species and cultural sites may mean that small areas need to have fossicking and other activities excluded for their protection.

Cheers Tributer


Last edited by Tributer on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:17 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Change grammer/spell errors)

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Imadogman on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:04 pm

Wazza – you are on fire!

As you can see by reading our forum there is no real consensus about the way forward
I’m sure others will want to contribute as they will most certainly have greater knowledge than I. For example, Tributer has excellent grasp of what is needed. Reading his post make me realise I know SFA!

Come on you armchair experts!! Let’s make this a better list!

But my wish list would include:
• Recognition that fossicking or recreational prospecting is a low environmental impact activity and needs to be considered separate to the interests of the broader mining industry. That is to say: a person with a metal detector, a pick, pan or sluice, is NOT a mining company and should be exempt from the burden of regulation that is required there for such companies.
• Broad policy support for our recreational pursuit of fossicking in the same way that fishers, shooters and 4WDers seek to use the land in NSW and other places.
Practically, this would mean:
• Retain current rights to fossick for any mineral or gem in NSW State forests
• Restore to pre-1992 Mining Act status the freedom to fossick in areas that have since that time been declared conservation areas and national parks
• Defined recreational fossicking areas in areas of old diggings in national parks that have been established over areas that were the location of previous gold mining operations between 1851 and 1950.
• Freedom to fossick on areas covered by Mining Leases, subject to authority of the land owners. (In other words not needing permission of the Mining Lease holder.)
• Encouragement of local councils to establish fossicking areas (gold and gems) in appropriate areas of their shire as means to encourage regional tourism.

I am encouraged by the posts but wonder about the silent majority on the forum. I suppose they would agree or they would say so right ? silent

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  davsgold on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:16 pm

Well said Tributer, thats is exactly whats needed. Also Imadogman has very good points as well.

I think it's a damn fine idea to combine with other outdoor users such as the "Shooters & Fishers Party", and 4x4 recreational land users for a common purpose, which is to be able to use the land responsibly for your choosen hobby.

cheers dave


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re the proposal so far

Post  rossco on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:01 pm

once more i feel compelled to support the rhetoric expressed so eloqeuntly by 'imadogman','wazza' and others. i can but simply say i am available to assist in any way i can...dont know what that may be.. but i and the people around me support you and commend the work you are doing on behalf of us who cannot ordinarily have a say in such matters...may the spirit of Eureka guide you in this great work...yours under the Southern Cross ...the Langlands Clan. : Surprised

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Who knows about the NSW Miner's Right ?

Post  Imadogman on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:40 am

Can someone with knowledge of the NSW Miner's Right please provide some information or links to online information to help understanding of what it would potentially do for us.

In particular:
1. When was it established? When Abolished? (I think it was 1992 with the new Mining Act).
2. What rights did it provide that were removed when it was abolished?
3.Why was it abolished? And what reasons did the Gov provide at the time or was it just bundled in with a whole lot of other changes?
4. Was there any consultation with the prospecting community when it was abolished?
5. Why would it be an advantage to bring it back?
6. Was it much different to the current Victorian one?

Quite a few questions here but it is important we understand what it is we might ask for!

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Imadogman on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:44 am

Was going to go for a swing today but the weather looked dodgy hence my focus on this debate. Since my last post, this is what I have found:

VICTORIA – THEIR MINER’S RIGHT

When I look through the details of the Victoria’s Miner’s Right, it is not really much different to what NSW prospectors have without needing to have a Miner’s Right. In the old days a miners right conveyed all sorts of privileges to use and access land (including building houses, chopping down trees, etc) but clearly in this day and age, even in Victoria, that is not the case. Although the Miner’s right does facilitate dispute settlement with the Mining Warden and establishes the PMAV as the Association that matters for prospectors. I would not have a clue as to how dispute resolution would occur in NSW.

Given that NSW does not currently have a Miner’s Right (and the costs that go with it) leaving as it is may be the best option. You will remember that there used to be no fishing licences. Now there is and it costs money. Some of that money goes back into improving fish stocks and has been used to buy out commercial licences in places like the South Coast. So in the long run there is an improvement to fishing. But at a cost to fishers. I remember I was spewing about needing to pay for a licence to go fishing twice a year and I think that is when the fishers jumped into bed with the shooters.

I doubt that NSW fossickers would want to (a) pay for a right they currently have for free and (b) have to have in order to fossick. Seeking to reinstate the NSW MIner’s Right may therefore be a backward step – not a forward one! So I think we should not pursue that one.

The key thing we need is fair rules to the activity and access to as much land as possible (with a minimum of permissions). These things don’t rely on a Miner’s Right but on the regulations that exist in the Mining Act. The sorts of things outlined in Tributer’s post are the practical considerations we need and what we should focus on.

Some details below of Victoria’s Miner’s Right.

MINERAL RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT

55. Miner's right

(1) A miner's right entitles the holder to search for minerals on any of the following land, unless the land is covered by a mining licence-
(a) private land, but only with the consent of the owner or occupier; and
(b) Crown land (other than land exempted under section 6 or 7 of this Act or nominated under section 7(1) of the Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978).

(1A) If the land is covered by a mining licence, the holder of a miner's right is entitled to search for minerals on the land if he or she has, in addition to any consent required under sub-section (1), the consent of the licensee.

(2) A consent granted under sub-section (1) or (1A)-
(a) may be granted subject to conditions; and
(b) may be withdrawn at any time by the person who granted it.

(2A) If the holder of a miner's right is validly on any land under this section, he or she may remove from the land any minerals discovered by him or her on the land.

(3) A miner's right is current for the time, not exceeding 2 years, specified in the miner's right.

58. Obligations of holder

(1) The holder of a miner's right acting under that right must not-- (a) use any equipment for the purposes of excavation on the land, other than non-mechanical hand tools; or
(b) use explosives on the land; or
(c) remove or damage any tree or shrub on the land; or
(d) disturb any Aboriginal place or Aboriginal object on the land.
Penalty: 100 penalty units.

(2) The holder of a miner's right must repair any damage to the land arising out of the search.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(3) The holder of a miner's right must produce the miner's right for inspection if asked to do so by an inspector or any person acting under a delegation conferred under section 91(b).
Victorian Prospecting Guide:
http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/earth-resources/exploration-and-mining/prospecting-and-fossicking/prospecting-guide
Some Frequently asked questions here as well:
http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/earth-resources/exploration-and-mining/prospecting-and-fossicking/faqs

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  granite2 on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:45 pm

As with any changes the government makes there is a cost. Take the salt water fishing license. They whack on a license then charge you for it and justify it by saying the money will be used to manage fish stocks. My argument is: what the devil happened to the billions of dollars the governments have raised over the decades that should have been used for fish stock managment. They got money every time you bought a fish hook a line, a rod and even bait. And don't even think about the huge amounts of revenue that have been raised in the form of sales tax/GST etc from the sales of boats, outboards etc and the registration of boats and trailers. Then there is the fuel you used getting to your fishing spot???

They conveniently forgot about all that money and no one seemed serious about questioning why we had to have another tax when all that money had been squandered on other things.


When we were living in Proserpine I found out that there wasn't one boat ramp in the Whitsundays that had been paid for by the state government despite the millions of dollars that had flowed south into the government coffers. All ramps were privately built many years ago and not one even had a ramp jetty. And thats only one instance, think about the shooters license and all the other revenue earners they have thought up over the years


So if you think about asking the government to change something to do with detecting think long and hard before you get too far into it.

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Imadogman on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:06 pm

Granite2, I think we are in agreement cheers

In my post I said:

I doubt that NSW fossickers would want to
(a) pay for a right they currently have for free and
(b) have to have in order to fossick.
Seeking to reinstate the NSW MIner’s Right may therefore be a backward step – not a forward one!
So I think we should not pursue that one.

On my analysis, I don't think the Miner's Right is the key because we already have similar rights to Victoria in NSW without the need for a licence that you have to pay for. So that is a good thing and we should not mess with it or waste our time chasing it.

The sort of changes identified by Tributer and myself don't cost anything to administer once the changes are done because the bureaucratic structrues to administer them are already in place. Apart from costs of legislative drafting by NSW public servants (who are already on the payroll) there should be no large costs to these changes beyond scheduled updating of online and published information. This can be done over time at very little cost.

Must be others out there with views on this....come-on guys.

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Late response

Post  philip.j.thompson on Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:37 pm

Im with others , we have the right for access to public land. Bring back a fossickers licence that encompasses all state forest, national parks and conservation areas. Access should also be available to EL, exploration leases, as well . One license one access. Lets bring NSW into the 21st century, or do we revert to the stone age.

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Hais on Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:17 am

Hi guys ,

this is my first post , Im a newbie and have no experience.

I have ordered an AT gold and an ACE 250 , I would like to get out with my son and enjoy the outdoors
and do some treasure hunting.

But I did not have a clue that national parks was a no no ! , I thought it would be great when on picnics to do a bit of detecting on the sand on the river bank and
on bush walks.

So making it legal for national parks would be good.
I live in sydney and mainly weekend picnics are at the local beaches and national parks.

IS there a local map of where we can fossick and where we cannot ?

Yes , One license would be very helpful.

Could someone please post some info or link as to where I should get a permit for fossiking , and where to send the application and how to pay for it.

Re- info of areas you will go for the application form or any other info they want in the application form, Im not even sure , It will mostly be a
spur of the moment thing with the kids , probably on weekends and holidays. If the hobby catches on we may even organise a trip somewhere - so my
question is what do i put in the application form ?

Any info would be helpful , I always try to do the right thing and would like to have little knowledge so as not to get into trouble.

Thanks

Hais.

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Unfortunately

Post  philip.j.thompson on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Fossickers licenses were abolished years ago in NSW sadly, you can't touch national parks or even walk through them to beaches etc with equipment. Theoretically , by law , you need to apply to State forestry for a fossicking license in their areas - I know seems a contradiction in terms - contact them for details. Exploration leases are knocking out even more of the state. You will be right on public beaches, not accessed via national parks. In normal parks or recreation areas see what the signs say, if it doesn't say no give it a go but use common sense and don't leave a mess, do take junk found with you. This is a great hobby unfortunately the fun police, greeniesand sometimes even our own fraternity - fill in all holes - are making it more difficult in NSW as time goes by. I am sure others can add a lot more to your query, regards Phil pirat

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Hais on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:27 am

Hi Phil ,

Thanks for the reply , Hmm interesting , they are making it hard to enjoy this hobby !

Iv never noticed the signs in local parks , have they started to add "No metal detecting" on the signs now as well.

Btw the AT Gold arrived this afternoon , I put it together and had a quick whirl seems to be working fine.
I pulled up a 10 cent coin 1967 from front yard , looks very rusty though.

Will putting it in a glass of coke for a while clean it ?

Hais.

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Show Me The Gold on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:04 pm


I doubt that NSW fossickers would want to (a) pay for a right they currently have for free and (b) have to have in order to fossick. Seeking to reinstate the NSW MIner’s Right may therefore be a backward step – not a forward one! So I think we should not pursue that one.

Mate funny you should mention that, this has been my attitude in the past. But under new thinking of mine if there was a reinstatement of the miners right at say a reasonable fee maybe 50 for 2 years or so and we kept all the rights we have now then yes it would be a backwards step but if futher rights were added to it say more rangers out in the more popular spots, dispute resolution, increased gold and gem take hom capacity (or even unlimited id pay for that) the abilty to take out a lease on a peice of land you may find particularly rich

Tom

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Where ever it goes

Post  philip.j.thompson on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Hi all, bottom line is that all the fossicking fraternity needs fair access to at least all crown land. The big boys move in and rape n pillage then move on. How many of you have seen mountains turned into plains and dirty great holes in the ground left - mind you I don,t mind a good industrial landscape. Point is in this day of political green correctionalism we lose the right to explore and opportunity to maybe make a quid and enjoy the great outdoors. Time to reopen NSW I reckon.
regards Phil Question

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Re: For NSW prospectors & fossickers

Post  Hais on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:18 pm

Thanks for the reply guys , so just to get it right ...

There is no such fossickers license required in NSW ...

However if I want to metal detect in NSW forests I will need a fossickers permit for that particular forest ...

Beaches and parks and reserves are ok but check the signs and always adhere to good ethics , fill your holes and take your rubbish with you , as should
be done in any location !!

National parks are strickly forbidden !

Have I got it right so far ?

What about gold prospecting say in the bathurst area , do you require a permit , or say areas in hill end public crown land not private land.

Thanks

Hais.

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You have just about covered it

Post  philip.j.thompson on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:29 pm

There is common area around Hill End and a few other limited places in NSW. These used to be designated fossicking areas. Unfortunately some/ many are in disappearance mode. Be very careful about state forests, many have morphed into conservation areas or national parks, I by no means want to rain on your parade. At the end of the day use common sense, observe signage and have fun. All the best with your efforts
regards Phil

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Sad but true

Post  LeeSMaz on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:51 pm

So much of NSW land has become unaccessable to prospecting.

And a fee is required to access the state forest if they'l let u.
A lot of the state forest r flaura n forna reserves or
outright national parks now.
Off limits to us individuals but not exploration licenses....

Seems a lot of previously fossicking locations are now unavailable.

The threat of fines and confiscation etc is rather nasty.

Now if we'd all form our own corporation of miners and
put in and set up an exploration license somewhere????

Its not unfeasable. Actually if u get enough people(20), its very doable.
Cost would be about the same as that AT-gold detector every 2 years.
Similar to joining a radio control model airplane club.

And then u target a large area that has good prospects for
us individuals. Especially if u get to target an area of state forest
so access agreements arent needed.

Shame just outside of coffs harbour got baggesd a few years ago.

Any ideas or takers, or am I joining the nasty big business people
too much with this idea??







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The Bigger Picture

Post  rossco on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:07 pm

I am in total agreement with our new NAPFA President Steve(Immadogman) Dangaard in relation to the futility of the introduction of a miners right ,when we already have the right to mine for gold and gems for free.I believe that change is needed though and that change can only come about with certain amendments to the Mining Act.1992.and from a concerted effort from the association to begin a dialogue with the relevant government departments,namely NPWS,CONSERVATION AND FORESTRY.
It is also essential that overtures are fielded with the shooters and fishers, 4WD clubs and any other group(S)that share our love of the great outdoors.
For although there are those fortunate ones amongst us who through their wisdom and skill and their access to costly equipment are able to profit handsomely from fields on a regular basis,the majority of us see the gold and gems as a bonus to what is essentially an appreciation of our wonderful bushland its clear waters and open forests. I also believe that it has not been as a result of the green movement influencing the closing of many ares to us per say ,but as a result of the bloody-mindedness of certain elements within National Parks who fail to realise that the lands over which they hold custody is OUR land.It is my land, your land, OUR land,... not Their LAND. sO HOW DO WE GET IT BACK?...We organise.we firstly need to build up the membership of the NAPFA to reflect something like the numbers of the forum. Goodmen are already in contact with certain politicians..and all power to them.We need to publicise our cause..media need to be aware that we are a growing force and that we intend to be heard. Events such as the muster need to be a regular event right across the goldfields. local bussiness people need to be informed in the said areas of the benefits that might arise for their town that there inclusion may bring. In doing this we build up a network of supporters.WE CAN DO THIS. wE MUST ALSO BE AWARE THAT we almost certainly are being monitored by the NPWS and god knows who else so there should be some type of security in place if the association intends a web sight. There IS a way and we can succeed if we unite in fellowship with each other for the greater good... Not for individual gain.Rossco

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Prospecting, Fossicking NSW

Post  LeeSMaz on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:02 am

Would be great if all the areas I keep turning up to, despite on the maps labelled State forest, instead
I keep running into Flaura n fauna reserves and State conservation areas and National parks, like yeh, reserved for big mining companies to get at their leisure whilst knowing that it cannot be touched by small individuals. So over this green scheme of things.

Seems all the areas of interest are reserved for non general public.

Of course ignoring all those oodles of non enforceable areas due to sheer quantity and size give u access to very interesting areas.

When your driving along and know your in the area you want and you see all them fences and signs every now and then saying no prospecting,
private property. You just know you did your end of investigation, map work and mineral research just right.
Gotta luv the private property signs on what was meant to be state forest and is now a Nature reserve or State conservation area.
Like, Private property. ??

Worse part is the threats of prosecution and fines against injurying wildlife etc, like, how did prospecting get thrown in with all
the other restrictions.




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